• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Malcolm Marshall vs Viv Richards: Who's the greater cricketer?

The greater cricketer


  • Total voters
    40

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Imho, these are the pace men comparable to MM:

Mcgrath
Hadlee
Imran
Steyn


Batsmen comparable to Viv (ex the obvious):

Sachin
Lara
Sobers
Hutton
Hobbs
Chappell
Hammond
Pollock

Slightly more batsmen than bowlers but I'll allow for the fact that teams tend to have more batsmen than bowlers. But relative to the competition, it'd be much easier for me to argue MM's case than sir Viv

Ps this is coming from a diehard Viv fanatic
I think you should include Ambrose in that list of bowlers and maybe sydney barnes as well.

Who do you think had more of an impact on wi cricket as a whole? It's hard to argue for Marshall. Viv was a better fielder a decent captain too. As an overall package i don't see how Marshall beats him.

Kyear2 i am surprised that you don't mention Viv's fielding given your constant rambling about slip fielding and fielding in general.
I think this is the third time I'm saying this but it seems silly everyone else leaves out Murali/Warne/O'Reilly in the GOAT bowler contention with Marshall. Including spinners, Marshall has just as many contenders for that spot as Viv if not more.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
I think Marshall was better but you absolutely have to include the spinners as well (O'Reilly being near Marshall is an argument no one is going to convince me of though).
 

Slifer

International Captain
I don't think spinners and fast men should be compared because they fulfill different roles. But for arguments sake, let's compare Murali and Marshall. Murali was a wicket taking machine but he was much more effective at home than he was abroad. Also, as compared to Marshall, Murali played a hell of a lot of matches vs poor teams. The 'weakest' team during Marshall's time was probably Australia ( they had Jones, Border, Hughes, Boon etc)
 

Slifer

International Captain
Great/atg wi batsmen:

Viv
Sobers
Headley
Lara
Weekes
Worrell
Walcott
Chanders
Kanhai

Bowlers:

MM
Amby
Holding
Garner
Bishop
Walsh
Roberts
Croft
Hall

I would never actually do this, but you can very easily pick 4 from the above batsmen and exclude Richards without there being a discernable drop in the batting. Cannot say the same if Marshall is excluded.
 

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
For me these are the pace men comparable to MM:

Mcgrath
Hadlee
Steyn


Batsmen comparable to Viv (ex the obvious):

Sobers
Sachin
Lara
Hobbs
Hutton
Chappell
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Great/atg wi batsmen:

Viv
Sobers
Headley
Lara
Weekes
Worrell
Walcott
Chanders
Kanhai

Bowlers:

MM
Amby
Holding
Garner
Bishop
Walsh
Roberts
Croft
Hall

I would never actually do this, but you can very easily pick 4 from the above batsmen and exclude Richards without there being a discernable drop in the batting. Cannot say the same if Marshall is excluded.
Everybody bar sobers will probably get a run for their money in that batters list. And honestly a n attack wirh ambrose garner holding and Roberts is as good as any with mm
 

watson

Banned
Errrrr, this is a thread comparing a batsmen to a bowler........
Exactly. So you can't really use their relative skill levels as a criteria because batting and bowling are completely different skills.

For me, Viv Richards had a bigger impact on West Indian cricket than Marshall who was 'merely' one of a long list of fast bowlers consisting of Hall, Roberts, Holding, Garner, Croft, Walsh, Bishop, Ambrose....

If Marshall never played cricket then I think that the West Indies would have still been great in the 70s - 90s because they had so much firepower anyway. But take Richards out of that era and they wouldn't have been the same.

I don't think that its any coincidence that Richards didn't play in the only Test series that they lost during the 80s. While Richard Hadlee was taking Lloyd's team apart in 1980 Viv Richards was back in Antigua with his feet up, injured.

EDIT: 70s and 80s
 
Last edited:

smash84

The Tiger King
Exactly. So you can't reallly use their relative skill levels as a criteria because batting and bowling are completely different skills.

For me, Viv Richards had a bigger impact on West Indian cricket than Marshall who was 'merely' one of a long list of fast bowlers consisting of Hall, Roberts, Holding, Garner, Croft, Walsh, Bishop, Ambrose....

If Marshall never played cricket then I think that the West Indies would have still been great in the 70s - 90s because they had so much firepower anyway. But take Richards out of that era and they wouldn't have been the same.


I don't think that its any coincidence that Richards didn't play in the only Test series that they lost during the 80s. While Richard Hadlee was taking Lloyd's team apart in 1980 Viv Richards was back in Antigua with his feet up, injured.
This
 

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
No

Richards started to decline mid '80's
Lloyd retired
Roberts retired
Holding was always injured, then retired
Grenville started to decline as well
Garner was clearly the supporting act
Walsh was now starting out and no where near the bowler he would become
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Walsh was there in 1987 and Ambrose came in 1988. Holding though injured after 84-85 still retired in 87. Then you had the likes of Patrick Patterson, Sylvester Clarke (got banned did he for rebel tour?) who were still backups. There was no shortage of talent.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I take 'greatest' to include not just the statistical but impact on the game, MVP to the team, who the oppo feared more, etc. For mine, it's Viv.
 

Slifer

International Captain
So relatively speaking, you all think that Viv was a better batsman than MM the bowler??
 

subshakerz

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I am really torn on this one. I think in the end it would depend largely on whether you value batting higher than bowling or vice versa, since both have compelling cases.

Viv Richards was the best batsman of the 70s and 80s when bowling standards were super high. From 1976 to 1980 was perhaps the greatest peak of any batsman bar Bradman, when he averaged over 60 against high quality attacks across the world. Statistically, he was also quite consistent across countries and doesnt have any particular weakness. More than stats, he was simply destructive and no other batsman could put such fear in the bowler. Imagine Sehwag doing what he could do, but against better bowlers and on tougher wickets.

Malcolm Marshall has the best case to be considered the finest of all pacers. Statistically, he is nearly unmatched, he performed well everywhere. He had all the tools and lacked nothing, with a great ability to read batsmen. It should be mentioned that during his peak from 84-88, he averaged nearly 6 wickets per test despite so many other world class bowlers around him, a fantastic achievement. In recent years, there seems to be growing consensus that he was better than the rest. Virtually any World XI selected nowadays will feature him, while a good majority of those who faced him rank him as the best. His record comparatively speaking is slightly more impressive than Richards to be frank. The more you look into his records, the better it looks.

One difference between them is that Viv was arguably the greatest ODI player of all time, while Marshall didnt really succeed in that format. But I normally discount ODIs in my consideration.

You can make a case that Marshall has fewer contenders for top pacer spot than Richards for no.2 after Bradman, but I dont think that is a fair way to separate them since its not Richards fault that he has more opposition. Similarly, you can make the case that Richards was more important to the WI's dominating side than Marshall as Marshall could be more easily replaced, but again I dont feel that is a fair comparison of the quality each of them possessed. If WI happened to have been more batting heavy, would that have tipped it to Marshall?

Yeah, I call it a dead heat, maybe a slight edge to Richards for his ODI achievements and standing out as a batter in a bowling-friendly era. But on second thought I could give the edge to Marshall for basically a flawless resume. Hard to separate the two champs.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Marshall had it easier because pitches were often bowler friendly according to now retired batsmen, very few batsmen averaged 50 during his time, high 30s was a decent average for a batsman and he didn't distinguish himself that much from the numerous other successful bowlers of his era on the bowler friendly pitches.

McGrath and Steyn had the modern day bull**** used to tell us all how modern batsmen secretly suck.

Viv averaged 50 in that stacked bowler friendly era.

#Kingvivforlyf #Marshallsecretlysucks #straightface
 

Top