**Official** New Zealand in Australia 2015

[Flem274*]

Some odd reactions in the many pages since the game. I kind of agree with the calls for more speed, but that's because it balances the attack more rather than gives the attack strike power. Hazlewood bowls 135 clicks like Southee and Boult and he didn't have any issues at Adelaide. Milne in the team would be nice for murdering tailenders, and he's not going to release the pressure with four balls. We already have strike power in Boult and Southee when they're in good form. Considering the doubts for the second (Southee) and third (Boult) tests over their back fitness, and how underdone they were for the first, NZ were always in trouble. NZ could have scored 700 at Brisbane and it wouldn't have mattered, and the pink ball under lights hid how poor they were at times in the first innings at Adelaide.

The loss was frustrating and I can't figure out whether the team dragged the tour back from calamity to just a bad tour or whether it was just a calamity. Some guys recovered from Brisbane, others did not, and Kane was Kane.

The umpiring wasn't fantastic but McCullum's tactics and the bowling after the decision were very poor, as I said earlier.

I think adub and others are getting very overconfident about the return series, but I'll allow for it. Hopefully I get to enjoy Australia bowling a metre too short like every other touring side does then the pitch looking very different when New Zealand bowl. Australia have a world class attack and a very intelligent bowling coach though so rather than NZ fans tucking into delicious English-esque tears about crap balls and flat decks, I think they will adapt better than previous tours if they're not still in West Indies bullying mode.

From memory both Anderson and Neesham are unlikely to play the Sri Lankan series so that throws up some fun balance questions for New Zealand which will be good to get into in the right thread. Will go on record as not a fan of the teams where Santner is #8. He's a batting allrounder right now.

Congratulations to Australia on a well played series. They dominated when the opportunities were there and fought hard when the situation was against them, and came out on top. A very classy comeback from the Ashes.

"Please let Martin Guptil be underneath this"

I disagree with the majority of your post but I was thinking this as well so much haha

 

[Hurricane]

That's just so harsh. If those 2 deliveries were only between Great and Good then what about all the short and wide filth that our lads committed hari kari too? .

Sometimes a sucker ball when delivered on the back of two maidens is a good ball. But yeah Kane has more excuses than Tom or Martin given his deliveries were more difficult. Still if you asked Kane if he thought he could've done better he would say yes. He would point out a couple of things he could have done differently. And the reason why he would answer that way is because he is intelligent and is a winner. People who aren't good at batting always give the bowler the credit and say there was nothing I could do about it.
Good batsman take accountability for their dismissal and learn and make notes on what they should have done differently - unless it really was some type of Wasim Akram superstar delivery.

Kane won't be happy with himself. Neither will the Boss.

I have a hunch that Brendon has written his adventure off in both innings as that is the way I play. Maybe that is a bit mean, he actually looked a bit remorseful in the 2nd dig, but it is difficult to read much into his batting style, sometimes he bats like a house on fire sometimes not.

 

[Skyliner]

If Williamson hadn't turned up in Brisbane, a calamitous defeat would have been outright humiliation of the worst kind. He was virtually a lone hand along with Latham & Baz's 80 on the last day. Across the rest of the team, there was very little performance of any note. The acclaim lavished on Kane in the Aussie media counter-balanced the derision heaped on Baz's captaincy and the performance of Craig and the seamers.
If we go down the road that he has to always perform in tests against the major nations for us to win, that is a very dangerous road to go down because even the best batsmen fail at times.

In many ways Kane's 1st innings hundred at the Gabba justified my trip there. The rapturous applause when he scored his hundred, the jubilation from us Kiwi supporters and the genuine appreciation of the Aussie crowd - it was a very fine thing to witness.

 

[Gob]

Why did Starc not have a runner?

Jesus

 

[Daemon]

By Athlai's logic, in a hypothetical team of 11 Bradmans, Bradman 9, 10 and 11 wouldn't be underperforming if they averaged 50.

 

[Athlai]

By Athlai's logic, in a hypothetical team of 11 Bradmans, Bradman 9, 10 and 11 wouldn't be underperforming if they averaged 50.

The logic that the number 11 is in the team to bowl and is the worst batsman in the team? It's like everyone has forgotten Chris Martin existed. Sure Boult could have batted better but why the hell should we get hung up on it? This is professional sport, pressure can get to people. Honestly can you imagine what it'd be like to be facing the best bowlers in the world, in a high pressure situation when you aren't particularly good at batting?

Bout has consistently done a hell of a job, getting out once in a while in a stupid manner? Who cares.

 

[Athlai]

Some odd reactions in the many pages since the game. I kind of agree with the calls for more speed, but that's because it balances the attack more rather than gives the attack strike power. Hazlewood bowls 135 clicks like Southee and Boult and he didn't have any issues at Adelaide. Milne in the team would be nice for murdering tailenders, and he's not going to release the pressure with four balls. We already have strike power in Boult and Southee when they're in good form. Considering the doubts for the second (Southee) and third (Boult) tests over their back fitness, and how underdone they were for the first, NZ were always in trouble. NZ could have scored 700 at Brisbane and it wouldn't have mattered, and the pink ball under lights hid how poor they were at times in the first innings at Adelaide.

The loss was frustrating and I can't figure out whether the team dragged the tour back from calamity to just a bad tour or whether it was just a calamity. Some guys recovered from Brisbane, others did not, and Kane was Kane.

The umpiring wasn't fantastic but McCullum's tactics and the bowling after the decision were very poor, as I said earlier.

I think adub and others are getting very overconfident about the return series, but I'll allow for it. Hopefully I get to enjoy Australia bowling a metre too short like every other touring side does then the pitch looking very different when New Zealand bowl. Australia have a world class attack and a very intelligent bowling coach though so rather than NZ fans tucking into delicious English-esque tears about crap balls and flat decks, I think they will adapt better than previous tours if they're not still in West Indies bullying mode.

From memory both Anderson and Neesham are unlikely to play the Sri Lankan series so that throws up some fun balance questions for New Zealand which will be good to get into in the right thread. Will go on record as not a fan of the teams where Santner is #8. He's a batting allrounder right now.

Congratulations to Australia on a well played series. They dominated when the opportunities were there and fought hard when the situation was against them, and came out on top. A very classy comeback from the Ashes.


I disagree with the majority of your post but I was thinking this as well so much haha

Santa bats 8 because he's the spinner and Anderson/Watling are better bats.

It's basically the Vettori batting all rounder role at #8.

 

[Hurricane]

Santa bats 8 because he's the spinner and Anderson/Watling are better bats.

It's basically the Vettori batting all rounder role at #8.

As a matter of national importance should get him in the top 5 somewhere asap.

 

[SteveNZ]

The logic that the number 11 is in the team to bowl and is the worst batsman in the team? It's like everyone has forgotten Chris Martin existed. Sure Boult could have batted better but why the hell should we get hung up on it? This is professional sport, pressure can get to people. Honestly can you imagine what it'd be like to be facing the best bowlers in the world, in a high pressure situation when you aren't particularly good at batting?

Bout has consistently done a hell of a job, getting out once in a while in a stupid manner? Who cares.

That's lazy logic. #11 can contribute like anyone else, and he can certainly be as good as 9 and 10 if he wants to be in many cases. I'm not sure the relevancy of Chris Martin. He was a highly uncoordinated guy who was one in a billion bad. But you know what? He never sold his wicket cheaply. The guy at the other end could at least go about his work knowing Tommy would at least try to bat for him. Boult didn't.

Why should we get hung up on anything, by that logic? But seeing we're on a forum, let's discuss how it's unacceptable and certainly didn't help our cause. It wasn't pressure either. And I keep saying, Trent CAN bat. He did it in England, he's done plenty of times. Just as Southee's weak as piss slogging isn't good enough, neither is Trent's.

It's just asking him to be flexible to the match situation, both he and Southee. They never do. It's infuriating.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah and they do bat, till the delivery they get out and we just keep focusing on the shot. Boult plays a lot of slogs, they usually come off. He isn't Southee but like most tail enders when under pressure they choose to attack because they aren't confident in their defence.

 

[Daemon]

The logic that the number 11 is in the team to bowl and is the worst batsman in the team? It's like everyone has forgotten Chris Martin existed. Sure Boult could have batted better but why the hell should we get hung up on it? This is professional sport, pressure can get to people. Honestly can you imagine what it'd be like to be facing the best bowlers in the world, in a high pressure situation when you aren't particularly good at batting?

Bout has consistently done a hell of a job, getting out once in a while in a stupid manner? Who cares.

He's done a hell of a job for a number 11, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have been better. Yeah there's no point in getting hung up over it, but this is professional sport at the highest level there is, you expect your players to give everything.

As for your point about pressure, I highly doubt it was that or occassion of the whole situation or whatever yesterday night. It was clearly just dumb batting. I don't think Bracewell, at any point, asked him to calm down either, so I'm sure the message came from the top.

 

[Hurricane]

Team of the Series

1 Warner
2 Burns
3 Williamson
4 Smith
5 Taylor
6 Voges
7 Neville
8 Starc
9 Hazelwood
10 Lyon
11 Southee

 

[adub]

Team of the Series

1 Warner
2 Burns
3 Williamson
4 Smith
5 Taylor
6 Voges
7 Neville
8 Starc
9 Hazelwood
10 Lyon
11 Southee

Don't think I can argue with that.

(apart from the misspelling of Nevill of course)

(actually Usman for Taylor/Voges is probably in order.)

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I stopped paying close attention after Santner's dropped catch. As soon as it went up I thought "Please let Martin Guptil be underneath this". But it was the rookie. What annoyed me about the drop was two fold. A) he was a deer in the headlights (all catching requires is determination) B) when they did a close up of him afterwards they showed him looking like Joe Cool with his collar up on end. He is ****y. It reminded me of Latham on debut where he swaggered around and got a top score of 3 or something and then wised up after that. On debut Latham wore a long sleeve shirt on a boiling hot day because it looked cool.
Test cricket is hard. Treat it with respect. I don't care Smith got out shortly thereafter - that chance should have been held and there was no way we were winning after that. Had a chance to redeem himself with a run out later and didn't take his chance.

Haha, what? Catching is not about determination. Like anything else in cricket it's about drilling that **** until you don't have to think. If you think you drop the ball. If you're scared of dropping the ball you drop the ball. A 24 Y/O in his debut test under a catch which could decide a test win? Yeah I'm gonna cut him a bit of slack. He's human. He handled it well to come back and take a key wicket.

He wears the collar up because he likes wearing the collar up. He could wear his jocks on his head for all I care, it doesn't have any relation to how he plays cricket.

 

[adub]

I think adub and others are getting very overconfident about the return series, but I'll allow for it. Hopefully I get to enjoy Australia bowling a metre too short like every other touring side does then the pitch looking very different when New Zealand bowl. Australia have a world class attack and a very intelligent bowling coach though so rather than NZ fans tucking into delicious English-esque tears about crap balls and flat decks, I think they will adapt better than previous tours if they're not still in West Indies bullying mode.

If Siddle plays (very unlikely I reckon) you might get too short crap. Pattinson though is gonna be full and swinging it at around 150 clicks. Starc obvs will be the same if he's got his head and ankle right. Haze might be the one to get his length a bit wrong, but if anything it was being a bit too full that hurt him in England rather than too short. I'm sure he'll bowl well in NZ.

Our bats will be susceptible to good swing bowling. No Australian doubts that. But if we have Patto, Haze and Starceh fit it probably won't matter. Like you said, Billy won't be asleep. He'll have em on the right length.

 

[Athlai]

He's done a hell of a job for a number 11, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have been better. Yeah there's no point in getting hung up over it, but this is professional sport at the highest level there is, you expect your players to give everything.

As for your point about pressure, I highly doubt it was that or occassion of the whole situation or whatever yesterday night. It was clearly just dumb batting. I don't think Bracewell, at any point, asked him to calm down either, so I'm sure the message came from the top.

Batting coach is the defensive mastermind Craig McMillan.

 

[Dan]

Maybe Trent's just in ****ing **** form with the bat at the moment? He's shown plenty of times that he's a capable #11.

I mean, if I'm the #11, picked in the team to bowl, and am just not picking the ball up at all while I'm batting, it'd definitely be a 'revert to slogging and hope' thing.

We don't have a clue why Boult batted the way he did.

 

[NZTailender]

Team of the Series

1 Warner
2 Burns
3 Williamson
4 Smith
5 Taylor
6 Khawaja
7 Neville
8 Starc
9 Hazelwood
10 Lyon
11 Southee

Fixed, though there wasn't much wrong. Only one disagreement in fact (Voges get ****ed)

 

[Skyliner]

The Numpties XI

1. Guptill
2. Latham
3. S Marsh
4. Voges
5. Baz
6. M Marsh
7. Watling
8. Craig
9. Bracewell
10. Henry
11. Siddle

 

[wellAlbidarned]

1. Guptill
2. Latham
3. S Marsh
4. Voges
5. Baz
6. M Marsh
7. Watling
8. Craig
9. Bracewell
10. Henry
11. Siddle

this like the exact inverse of a C9 fan vote team