Who is the Best "Cricketer" Ever?

[Satyanash89]

You are forgetting that for whole of Wasim's career Pakistan had 2-3 alltime great bowlers + atleast 2 very good bowlers which resulted in more wicket sharing & less chance to take wickets

That's also true for Waqar, Donald, McGrath, Marshall, Holding, and many other greats who were part of great attacks... still didn't stop them from taking more wickets than Wasim. Waqar especially considering he was with Wasim his whole career has amazing stats... more wickets per match, far better strike rate, great average, many more top order wickets, almost the same number of five-wicket hauls even though he played around 20 matches less... I've always considered Waqar to be quite a bit better than Wasim just by watching them bowl, but the stats favour Waqar too.

 

[fredfertang]

Waqar at his all too brief peak was the best fast bowler I've seen, and quite comfortably so too - Wasim was always a bit of a let down to me - I appreciate that in the daily grind of county cricket it's difficult to give of your best all the time, but I do think Lancashire were a bit short changed with him, particularly when you look at the value Surrey got out of Waqar

 

[Lillian Thomson]

It does suggest that he was less effective against actual batsmen than other great bowlers though. If you're given the opportunity to bowl at the tail regularly then your average will be lower than someone who does similarly well against the top order but bowls at the tail less regularly. Wasim doesn't have a lower average to go with his increased tailend wickets percentage.

There's no doubt he was a great bowler. I think he falls a little short when compared to most other great bowlers though.

I agree. I wasn't suggesting knocking over the tail made him Arch Duke Ferdinand, it was just a suggestion as a possible mitigation. He doesn't make my top 10 bowlers.

 

[smash84]

I agree. I wasn't suggesting knocking over the tail made him Arch Duke Ferdinand, it was just a suggestion as a possible mitigation. He doesn't make my top 10 bowlers.

It seems you have been watching cricket for a long time. So who are your top 10 bowlers?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

It seems you have been watching cricket for a long time. So who are your top 10 bowlers?

Well I'm just off out so don't have time for this now. Just for you though I will say that Imran isn't one of them either.

 

[Coronis]

This is Wasim's record before Waqar began playing for Pakistan, his record for the rest of his matches since then is far superior. In matches where they both played, both of them bowled better than their career stats suggest.

I don't believe Wasim is a bowler in the class of Marshall/McGrath etc., but he is not that far behind, and not as far ahead of Waqar as some think. Would love to see him bowling with one of the very top tier pacers, left/right arm combo with his reverse swing would be great. Something like, Marshall/McGrath/Wasim/Warne would be a dream bowling lineup to watch.

 

[smash84]

Well I'm just off out so don't have time for this now. Just for you though I will say that Imran isn't one of them either.

haha.....I had a feeling that was the case anyway ........ but I am genuinely curious to see your list

 

[H4G]

Well I'm just off out so don't have time for this now. Just for you though I will say that Imran isn't one of them either.

Yesterday I was going through some lot of years older threads on CW & I read your comment "West Indies,Australia & England each have 10 bowlers better than Imran Khan."

You call others idiot for differing with your opinions but even Oxford Dictionary would struggle to find a word for you for saying those shameless words & utter nonsense.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Yesterday I was going through some lot of years older threads on CW & I read your comment "West Indies,Australia & England each have 10 bowlers better than Imran Khan."

You call others idiot for differing with your opinions but even Oxford Dictionary would struggle to find a word for you for saying those shameless words & utter nonsense.

Anyone with even half a brain reading that post could see that it was taking the piss out of Bupender Squid (or whatever his name was) who thought Imran was the creator of the Universe. I must assume therefore that you survive on less than 50% living brain cells.

***Edit***

Looking at it again and to be fair it isn't obvious from the thread in question that it was a piss take. You had to have been there at the time and see other threads that were around at that time with all the hero worshipping of Imran that was going on and my attempts to wind up the clergy.

 

[H4G]

Anyone with even half a brain reading that post could see that it was taking the piss out of Bupender Squid (or whatever his name was) who thought Imran was the creator of the Universe. I must assume therefore that you survive on less than 50% living brain cells.

***Edit***

Looking at it again and to be fair it isn't obvious from the thread in question that it was a piss take. You had to have been there at the time and see other threads that were around at that time with all the hero worshipping of Imran that was going on and my attempts to wind up the clergy.

Its fine if that is the case then.But don't you think others have as much right to worship their heroes as you do?

 

[Teja.]

Waqar at his all too brief peak was the best fast bowler I've seen, and quite comfortably so too - Wasim was always a bit of a let down to me - I appreciate that in the daily grind of county cricket it's difficult to give of your best all the time, but I do think Lancashire were a bit short changed with him, particularly when you look at the value Surrey got out of Waqar

In fairness, Waqar's peak lasted a whole five years between 1990 and 1994.

His career has been a bit of a let down only in the sense that he 'only' ended up being one of the others with near 400 wickets at an average in the low twenties and a much superior strike rate as opposed to an opportunity at being the greatest bowler of a all-time by a margin if he went on for longer after how he started.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Its fine if that is the case then.But don't you think others have as much right to worship their heroes as you do?

Of course anyone can hero worship anyone they like. But if I claimed that my favourite cricketer was the most important Human Being in the history of the Universe I would quite happily accept a bit of ridicule.

 

[H4G]

Waqar at his all too brief peak was the best fast bowler I've seen, and quite comfortably so too - Wasim was always a bit of a let down to me - I appreciate that in the daily grind of county cricket it's difficult to give of your best all the time, but I do think Lancashire were a bit short changed with him, particularly when you look at the value Surrey got out of Waqar

Waqar's peak which lasted 200 wickets can't be called a brief peak, thats more wickets than many alltime greats took in their whole career.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

haha.....I had a feeling that was the case anyway ........ but I am genuinely curious to see your list

I don't really have a Top 10 as there's too many too close to split. My Top 3 are usually Lillee, Marshall and Trueman. But then whether an attack of Ambrose, McGrath and Donald for example would be less effective is open to debate.

 

[fredfertang]

Waqar's peak which lasted 200 wickets can't be called a brief peak, thats more wickets than many alltime greats took in their whole career.

The peak I am referring to is 1991 - if he had bowled like he did in that English summer for a decade bowling would have had its Bradman

 

[Plumbinfront]

I think you could make a fair case that Imran isn't in the top 15 fast bowlers ever. I'd have him in the lower half of my top 10 personally but I can see why some people would rate him lower.

 

[smash84]

I think you could make a fair case that Imran isn't in the top 15 fast bowlers ever..

Really? How would you make a fair case like that and which 15 fast bowlers would you put above him?

 

[Coronis]

Really? How would you make a fair case like that and which 15 fast bowlers would you put above him?

Hmmm, Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Lillee, Hadlee, Garner, Steyn, Larwood, Trueman, Lindwall, Akram, Waqar, Pollock, Donald, Holding. These are the possible ones, Imran would probably be in my top 10. I've probably forgotten someone good.

 

[smash84]

Hmmm, Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Lillee, Hadlee, Garner, Steyn, Larwood, Trueman, Lindwall, Akram, Waqar, Pollock, Donald, Holding. These are the possible ones, Imran would probably be in my top 10. I've probably forgotten someone good.

All of these are quite debatable. Imran as a bowler is quite under rated IMO.

Averages sub 30 in all countries that he played in and could run through very good batting line ups. Was awesome against arguably the greatest team of all time and has (according to the ICC) the highest peak of any post world war II bowler.

 

[Prince EWS]

All of these are quite debatable.

Very much so. But the fact that they're debatable and not just straight up wrong proves his point.