*Official* Third Test at the WACA

[Jarquis]

Yes, because your performances in the 4th and 5th Tests of the series are always exactly the same as the your performances in the first three. Ponting's still faaaaar more likely to make a significant impact on the match than his replacement, unless Corey Richards or Greg Mail come out of retirement.

Pick Bradman

 

[vicleggie]

Looked a lot more impressive on the scorecard that he did on the pitch.

Difference this test is he looks like a bowler too.

oh ho hum.
he is a wicket taker. he looked threatening in that match against india, and there were no concernes about his form last summer.

difference was he REALLY got it right this test. he was utterly destructive

 

[Prince EWS]

Looked a lot more impressive on the scorecard that he did on the pitch.

No doubt, but it doesn't really matter. If he takes wickets, which he does, then he's performing well, no matter what he looks like. People tend to over-react on the rare occasion he doesn't take wickets because then they look at how he bowled - which rarely looks good, but is usually effective. Hilfenhaus conversely can take no wickets for three Tests and people just say he's unlucky. There's only so long you can be lucky or unlucky; after it happens for three years you have to face facts.

Johnson doesn't have to swing the ball and look threatening to actually be threatening, and having a bad game shouldn't see him dropped just because people don't understand how he manages to do what he does.

 

[pasag]

Posters from neither side seem to be able to do that.

Hmm, don't think either side deserves too much credit over the past few days. We batted poorly Watto and Hussey aside, England bowled ok then today we weren't too shabby but England shouldn't be 5 down. Siddle was horrible. That shot by KP was pretty poor especially. Not champagne cricket by any stretch of the imagination but about time we were in the box seat. Feels like forever since we were.

 

[vicleggie]

No doubt, but it doesn't really matter. If he takes wickets, which he does, then he's performing well, no matter what he looks like. People tend to over-react on the rare occasion he doesn't take wickets because then they look at how he bowled - which rarely looks good, but is usually effective. Hilfenhaus conversely can take no wickets for three Tests and people just say he's unlucky. There's only so long you can be lucky or unlucky; after it happens for three years you have to face facts.

Johnson doesn't have to swing the ball and look threatening to actually be threatening, and having a bad game shouldn't see him dropped just because people don't understand how he manages to do what he does.

i think what he did in brisbane warranted him not playing in adelaide, but purely so he couldget himself right.

interesting that g chappell said before the test that johnson was always going to be rested in adelaide and back in perth. everyone rubbished him and said that was a pile of ___.
maybe he was telling the truth, and it looks to be a fantastic move

 

[four_or_six]

anderson can open up a match at the start, and tremlett and broad can all take quick wickets and run through a couple of batsman,and swann (proabably the closest to 'matchwinning' you have)can do damage on a spinning pitch - he will be a handful in sydney- but yup, apart from steyn, johnson, and probably zaheer khan, there are no real matchwinning bowlers in world cricket.

Graeme Swann says hi.

 

[Ruckus]

Johnson doesn't have to swing the ball and look threatening to actually be threatening, and having a bad game shouldn't see him dropped just because people don't understand how he manages to do what he does.

That's true, but at the same time Johnson could be so much better if he knew how he was swinging it and tried to do it every game. I hope him being dropped has forced him to change his mindset about how he bowls in a more permanent way now.

 

[four_or_six]

Fair play to Johnson for coming back. Hopefully we can play him better next time.

I was hoping for more fight from us with the bat. Anyway, we do tend to come back well after we get beaten badly, so hopefully it'll be the same this time.

 

[vicleggie]

Graeme Swann says hi.

tell him i say "you're a good spinner, but matchwinner in the dale steyn/johnson mould? get ****ed."

 

[Prince EWS]

That's true, but at the same time Johnson could be so much better if he knew how he was swinging it and tried to do it every game. I hope him being dropped has forced him to change his mindset about how he bowls in a more permanent way now.

Johnson swinging the ball in the South Africa did more long-term damage to his career than good IMO. People (including him for a time) became obsessed with it despite the fact it's not something he can consistently do. I'm actually not quite as excited by him doing it here as most because I doubt it's something he can sustain. What he can sustain is those fast, awkward cutters he bowls - something people forget about it, instead assuming that he's completely ineffective when he's not swinging it. Johnson of the home series against South Africa is a much more realistic goal than the Johnson who swung the ball in South Africa and in this game.

 

[four_or_six]

That's true, but at the same time Johnson could be so much better if he knew how he was swinging it and tried to do it every game. I hope him being dropped has forced him to change his mindset about how he bowls in a more permanent way now.

Before Brisbane I heard him saying he had 'no idea' how he sometimes swung the ball, which I thought was a bit bizarre. If true, that is.

 

[Prince EWS]

That's true, but at the same time Johnson could be so much better if he knew how he was swinging it and tried to do it every game. I hope him being dropped has forced him to change his mindset about how he bowls in a more permanent way now.

Johnson swinging the ball in the South Africa did more long-term damage to his career than good IMO. People (including him for a time) became obsessed with it despite the fact it's not something he can consistently do. I'm actually not quite as excited by him doing it here as most because I doubt it's something he can sustain. What he can sustain is those fast, awkward cutters he bowls - something people forget about it, instead assuming that he's completely ineffective when he's not swinging it. Johnson of the home series against South Africa is a much more realistic goal than the Johnson who swung the ball in South Africa and in this game.

 

[vicleggie]

Graeme Swann says hi.

tell him im also not impressed by the pile of rubbish he bowled today (and in brisbane)

matchwinner after that ****?HAAAAHAHAHAHAH

 

[BoyBrumby]

No doubt, but it doesn't really matter. If he takes wickets, which he does, then he's performing well, no matter what he looks like. People tend to over-react on the rare occasion he doesn't take wickets because then they look at how he bowled - which rarely looks good, but is usually effective. Hilfenhaus conversely can take no wickets for three Tests and people just say he's unlucky. There's only so long you can be lucky or unlucky; after it happens for three years you have to face facts.

Johnson doesn't have to swing the ball and look threatening to actually be threatening, and having a bad game shouldn't see him dropped just because people don't understand how he manages to do what he does.

Partially agree. There's a tendancy amongst some folk to look only at the scorecards when assessing a player's worth tho and the fact is that sometimes bowlers do bowl well and aren't rewarded (Harris at Adelaide was traduced by his figures, best Aussie return notwithstanding) and sometimes they're less than inspired and take a bag (Finn at Brisbane wasn't so much flattered as groomed by his six-for).

When bowlers who generally look erratic and (frankly) clueless cease to be effective it makes it a lot easier for selectors to drop them. Hilf hasn't taken the wickets, no but (as I think vic pointed out) he's been economical and has successfully tied an end up, allowing the more attacking bowlers to pitch it up and maybe get driven in the search for something. It's a team game, tbh & one can at least see what he's trying to do. With Johnson at the Gabba & Bollinger at Adelaide, not so much.

 

[Prince EWS]

tell him im also not impressed by the pile of rubbish he bowled today (and in brisbane)

matchwinner after that ****?HAAAAHAHAHAHAH

Wait, so you call Johnson a match-winner but then refuse to do so for another bowler because he's inconsistent?

 

[vicleggie]

Wait, so you call Johnson a match-winner but then refuse to do so for another bowler because he's inconsistent?

Law of averages. johnson has been good for far more matches and has far more wickets.

was half joking. i just dont think swann is up with johnson

 

[GIMH]

Swann not a matchwinner?

 

[Jarquis]

tell him im also not impressed by the pile of rubbish he bowled today (and in brisbane)

matchwinner after that ****?HAAAAHAHAHAHAH

Just miss out the game that he won. Nice.

 

[Prince EWS]

Partially agree. There's a tendancy amongst some folk to look only at the scorecards when assessing a player's worth tho and the fact is that sometimes bowlers do bowl well and aren't rewarded (Harris at Adelaide was traduced by his figures, best Aussie return notwithstanding) and sometimes they're less than inspired and take a bag (Finn at Brisbane wasn't so much flattered as groomed by his six-for).

Yeah, there's no doubt it happens in isolated spells, innings or even series, but when it happens for years I do think it's time to say "well maybe he hasn't been lucky; maybe I just don't fully understand how he gets his wickets."

Johnson almost always looks gash, IMO, but he almost always takes key top order wickets as well. If it'd happened over a small sample size I'd be calling him rubbish (as I did early in his career, tbh) but it's been happening for so long that it can't just be luck.

 

[GIMH]

Law of averages. johnson has been good for far more matches and has far more wickets.

was half joking. i just dont think swann is up with johnson

Johnson's played far more games...

Swann has a superior average, despite being a spinner.