It's not entirely out of the bounds of possibility, though.......
but the records and accounts suggest he didn't. And I dare say it is easier to play a non-specialist spinner easier having played pace at the othe end than the other way... Personally always felt it was easier to get in playing seamers first and spinners later than the reverse.
You keep forgetting the fact that he has to bat as well.. And of course, it is full of IFs and BUTs. We are talking about someone we never saw play. What else do you expect?
Well, if the bowler is so bad that he won't get a wicket before he bowls 16 overs it might just be a good idea to give him that much needed rest that he so desperately needs..You keep forgetting the fact that he has to bat as well.. And of course, it is full of IFs and BUTs. We are talking about someone we never saw play. What else do you expect?
And secondly, it is not as straightforward as simply turning up and bowling the way which allows you to pick up wickets.. If I have a guy who bowls seam up and CAN get me a wicket at a SR of around 75 (and take wickets at SR of 95 as a spinner) and I have another seamer who CAN get wickets at a SR of around 60 and the former is also the main batter in my team while the latter is a specialist bowler, I would rather the former bowled spin and felt fresh for his batting, esp. if it also means I get some variation having picked a primarily pace attack... If your next question is about why we need spinners, I am gonna have to redirect to the threads for that purpose..
Haha yeah. I remember watching a program where Lillee and Sobers recollected the events of that match. Sobers definitely wanted to have a go at Lillee.
What records and accounts? Even assuming that they do, can it be proven that those instances were frequent enough to significantly impact his bowling record negatively? The rest is conjecture.
but if your other bowlers all need their rest too, what do you do in that case? And this guy is still comfortably better than your other batters when it comes to bowling.. So obviously he will be your fifth bowler, won't he?Well, if the bowler is so bad that he won't get a wicket before he bowls 16 overs it might just be a good idea to give him that much needed rest that he so desperately needs..
It is ALL conjecture.. You are arguing about something that I never claimed to be the complete truth anyways.
I am pretty sure the book "history of cricket" will give you the answer.. Over the weekend, if I have the time, I will try to post some excerpts from it about Sobers. Not really sure if I can find it online or not, gonna type it out for you, Hoe..
My other bowlers needing a rest for 16 overs???? I don't really think they can be called real athletes then let alone professional bowlers (this could be a situation if you have all Shoaib Akhtars in your team.......)but if your other bowlers all need their rest too, what do you do in that case? And this guy is still comfortably better than your other batters when it comes to bowling.. So obviously he will be your fifth bowler, won't he?
That's a limitation of the all rounder that counts against him, not in favour of him as an excuse. If you've already got four other bowlers in your team, and the fifth still needs his rest, it doesn't speak highly of him, and he deserves whatever record he manages to accumulate operating in that fashion.but if your other bowlers all need their rest too, what do you do in that case? And this guy is still comfortably better than your other batters when it comes to bowling.. So obviously he will be your fifth bowler, won't he?
My other bowlers needing a rest for 16 overs???? I don't really think they can be called real athletes then let alone professional bowlers (this could be a situation if you have all Shoaib Akhtars in your team.......)
My point still is that mainstream bowlers can't bowl 25 overs per day and they want rest????
Well, you mentioned that Sobers would need to bowl his spin to feel fresh for his batting, which would be weak of him as a fifth bowler.
yeah but you are again making it sound as though he ONLY bowled spin while my point is about him may be bowling MORE spin than pace.
definitely.. HOw many mainstream bowlers today get through 25? They all need a rest and that is why most team bowl a 5th guy even today, when the 5th guy is as bad as Raina or waterboy..
Well that is my point. Garry might be another waterboy or Raina with the balldefinitely.. HOw many mainstream bowlers today get through 25? They all need a rest and that is why most team bowl a 5th guy even today, when the 5th guy is as bad as Raina or waterboy..
But then it gets offset in his batting average that would improve because of the rest. Which again goes to show that you get the record you deserve. You can't make excuses for one aspect if you've made concessions with intention of benefiting another aspect of your game.
record you deserve? I don't really see who said he was better than what his numbers suggest. I am only saying see the numbers of others around the same time to see the real meaning of those numbers. And yes he deserves the record he has but I don't see how it actually makes him a lesser player if he did that... He was still doing a job for his team and that is all that matters, and I still think as a combination, he was so good and better than any other allrounder to have played the game.
