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Which was the most painful defeat for India?

Most painful


  • Total voters
    22

jeevan

International 12th Man
Pakistan 2006 was painful, as Irfan Pathan fan, because he took a first over maiden hat-trick and yet we lost by 300 odd runs. I believe he has not really bowled as an effective strike bowler after that test (might be superstitious sort of belief, and there are a bunch of technical reasons, but...). It however is not such a disappointment as an India fan - Kamran Akmal played very well in the 1st innings and everyone in the Pakistani team did too in the second ( even Faisal Iqbal, who has never done anything else in tests it seems like, just to rub it in). So it was a fair and square defeat.

Ditto Australia in India 2004. We were outplayed and pretty much that's all there was to it.

Sydney 2008 still hurts. Pretty much turned me over into the replace-umpires-with-technology camp.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Just his commentary, huh ? Really ?

"He simply had no intent"


That was the first line of the article, and you call it wise ?
Agreed, the article was a joke. How can you be embarrassed while doing nothing more than watching someone else do something? Because they're both Indian? If I was Sachin and someone told me a journo was embarrassed for me, I'd tell him to go play a game of hide and go **** himself.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Easily South Africa 2006. That third test was the first (and only) time I was ever angry at the Indian team. Not upset, not disappointed, not embarrassed. Just pure anger.
 

Johnners

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Thanks vcs. Now that is what I call a "commentary". Sambit Bal criticized Tendulkar, as rightly that innings deserved that ridicule, but wisely he desisted from making broader conclusions from that or making it a "calling for his head" piece, which Chappelli with all his infinite wisdom erred in. Sambit can get no flak because he offered just his commentary on that particular innings alone.
Nah, Chappelli made comments that at the time were perfectly reasonable. Your constant tirade on this is not going to change that fact. We've already had this discussion before as well:



Leave your hero worship at the door, don't hijack this thread.
Just his commentary, huh ? Really ?

"He simply had no intent"


That was the first line of the article, and you call it wise ?
Still on the chappell's back mate !!! I thought you finally agreed with others on that one. As far as sambit's article concerned its not one of his great works, not much direction in that article either, seems like "in the moment article" to me.

Chappell don't get flack from any one either, apart from hard core SRT fans who most of the times wanted to believe what they want.
Agreed, the article was a joke. How can you be embarrassed while doing nothing more than watching someone else do something? Because they're both Indian? If I was Sachin and someone told me a journo was embarrassed for me, I'd tell him to go play a game of hide and go **** himself.
Please lets not take this thread off track as well with the Tendulkar/Chappell argument fella's. It has no relevance to the topic at hand, and I'm fairly certain it wasn't the sort of discussion G.I Joe had hoped for when creating the thread...
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Amazed at the lack of 2004/05-Australia mention here.

I'm not an Indian fan but I certainly strongly supported India that series and the amount of stuff which went against them which was the result of some sort of conspiracy (whether of fate or of someone who should know better) was unreal...

Tendulkar missed the first two Tests with injury...
Ganguly missed the last two...
Harbhajan missed the Third Test with illness...
Pathan missed the last two...
Parthiv Patel played the first three despite the fact it should've been obvious by then that his wicketkeeping was not of requisite quality...
Ponting missing the first three and being replaced by Clarke who in all likelihood did better than Ponting would've done...
The rain on the last day of the Second Test...
The pitch for the First Test that looked like it was going to be a nice turner and turned-out flat as a pancake (think Dean Jones called it "a lamb in wolf's clothing")...
And of course, worst of all, the bright spark at the VCA who, because he hated Jagmohan Dalmiya, decided to deliberately sabotage the Test team by instructing his curator to prepare a green deck for the Third Test, which worked a treat and saw India hammered.

And the series was an incredibly crucial one - resulted in the first home defeat to Australia for 35 years.
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Yeah but we were so thoroughly outplayed in the first and third test (particularly the third!) that it didn't hurt as much as in South Africa, where we performed in each of the three tests to good levels at times, but wound up losing 2-1.

Particularly since that third test pitch was as close to an Indian wicket as you'll get in South Africa!
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Said it before but that series was a case of real irony \ paradox. India completely outplayed South Africa in the First Test, on a wicket that couldn't have been much more seam-friendly if you'd tried; South Africa then managed to overcome India on something not far from a perfect deck for the Wankhede or Chepauk.

As for India being outplayed completely in the First and Third Tests (and, in fact, if we're honest, much of the Fourth as well), yeah, fo' sho' they were, but a lot of it had to do with factors out of the control of the team and management - the First Test deck not behaving as expected, and being deliberately sabotaged in the Third. To me, that'd add to the frustration.
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Hmm, having injuries just suggested that things weren't going our way... and you sort of accept that quicker than potentially winning an overseas series in South Africa and then on the last 2 days being heartbroken.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Fair noof - I can certainly see how getting so close to something unprecedented then being dashed is immeasurably frustrating.

Suppose the main difference is I was supporting South Africa that series so I can't really make any comparison!
 

Sir Alex

Banned
Nah, Chappelli made comments that at the time were perfectly reasonable. Your constant tirade on this is not going to change that fact. We've already had this discussion before as well:



Leave your hero worship at the door, don't hijack this thread.
:yawn: Had he stopped at that obvious thing that Tendulkar had been generally out of form he' d been okay. But he went a step further and "predicted" Tendulkar to be "done" and "his inclusion would be only in his selfish niterests and not that of the team". That is where he erredand rightly copping he brickbats.

Edit : Oops I just read Clapo's post. Sorry for the derailment.
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
I have a great regard for Ian Chappell as a batsman (he is highly under rated) as captain (he is one of the best one has seen) and as commentator (he is always good) but he has this tendency to use very strong words and to put more emphasis on the point he is making than is needed. This results in his putting his foot in his mouth once in a while (not a great surprise for an Aussie). In this respect he is like Bishen Bedi except that Bedi does in in every sentence :dry:

I feel when Chappell wrote that article, Sachin was surely still not out of his worst patch. Many had suggested that he should quit (nonsense in my humble opinion) and many others that he should be dropped from the Indian team which was almost justified I think. It is silly to think a player out of form, howsoever great, should not be dropped, or rested if you please. A spell away from the crease, some time in the early 2000's, would have done Sachin a spot of good and he would have come back to form earlier and would have looked better as he has always done when laid down by injuries.

Chappell, however, was wrong on two counts.

Firstly to suggest that Sachin should quit the game. Many have written why he should not or why it was not proper for any one to suggest it. The selectors can drop a player. The public (and the experts) can say he deserves to be dropped but its no one's call to ask a player to retire. Thats absolute nonsense. It is the player's call - one hundred percent. He may make a right choice in timing, he may make a bad one but you cant make the decision for him.

People talk of whether Sachin was good enough to be in the Indian team at that time. This is important and important for selection purpose. Thats all. The retirement decidion depends upon whether the player, himself, feels he is good enough and if not whether he thinks he can come back to be good enough. Again the decision is his. He can at best be dropped.

There seems to be this issue nowadays with all great and really good players. We seem unable to see them beyond their peaks. This is wrong. Hobbs played first class cricket into his mid fifties and, in fact, scored more than a hundred first class centuries after his 40th birthday.

WG Grace played his best cricket in his 20's. His record from 1880 onward is much worse and is what pulls down his overall average but he was good enough to play for the first class sides he played for. He was just not as good as he was in his 20's.

One can go on and on with such examples.

Chappell was write in suggesting that Sachin was nowhere near his best but he was out of place suggesting SRT should quit the game. His hinting at selfish personal motives does not deserve a comment.

The second point on which Chappell erred was to suggest deride Sachin's double hundred in Australia in 204. That bit needs to be quoted...

His double century at the SCG in January 2004 was a classic case of a great player really struggling. He came to the crease out of form and despite amassing all those runs and batting for in excess of ten hours he was no closer to recapturing his best touch than he was when he started out. It was a tribute to his determination but it was a sad sight to see; there are enough average players around that you don't won't to see a class one reduced to that level.​

Yes he was struggling as he came into that game and he decided he was going to get out of his rut. He told himself (rightly or wrongly who knew then) that he was going to cut out his cover drives completely. and he did.

HERE is Sachin's wagon wheel for the innings.

Thirty-three boundaries in all but only one of them in front of the wicket on the off side. None between point and covers. His innings scored at a strike rate of 55 plus - no less than his career strike rate. Everyone who saw that innings will remember that innings. Yes it wasn't Tendulkar at the peak of his form. we don't need Chappell to tell us that. It was Tendulkar in the WORST form of his life, playing against the best side, by far, on the whole planet and he scored 248 runs. This was triumph of a master over terrible form, intense =pressure from public, media and critics and, most importantly, self-doubt which must have crept in. Yet he scored those runs. Not prodding and boring us to death. Not hammering the minnows of the world to get a dubious 'good-feel' about himself but conquering his demons AND the best team in the world in their backyard. What could be more admirable?

And what about the discipline of the man. After reaching his hundred, after reaching his 150 and then 200, did he try to play the cover drive that he had played hundreds of times all over the world. NO. Had he forgotten how to play it? Are you out of your mind? He just decided he wont do it and didn't. Isn't this the mental strength that Australians profess to admire so much?

I watched every single second of that innings and although I am not one of those nationalistic fanatics, my heart swelled with pride when i saw this fellow Bombayite, this fellow Indian, this fellow cricketer (if I may immodestly say so) play the most significant innings of his life. No Mr Chappell you got it all wrong this time. It was not a sad sight to see. Not for Indians not for cricketers and not for sportsmen around the world. Anyone with his head(and heart) in the right place would salute the effort of this sportsman.

And what of the Australian attack?

Here was Sachin helping India pile up a 700 plus score the highest ever by India against Australia (at that time the highest against any country in 72 years of test cricket), wasn't Australia trying to stop him? Get him out maybe or at least cut out the flow of runs. After all he wasn't scoring many runs on that side. Other than the solitary boundary, Sachin had just 19 runs between point and straight behind the bowler on the off side !! Wow and yet the best side in the world, led by the best captain of the day, on one of the largest grounds in the world, could not stop him? You mean they did not try?

Of course they did. Yet the little master manipulated the bowling from every where on the wicket to the on side, scoring 97 runs behind square leg and 89 in front of it ! Does that not require extraordinary skills? Do you not have it in you to appreciate those extraordinary skills Mr Chappell?

Of course not. It is much more important to use strong, even if misplaced, language and references to make a point you have already decided you want to make.

In that case, anything goes I suppose.
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Crackin' post as, well, pretty much always really.

On the "selfish" note - have never remotely understood why a player who plays on when he's not good enough any more is apparently being selfish. Quite the opposite, in fact. A player who plays on when he knows he's not performing to adequate standards is doing nothing but harming himself - and if a player is harming himself he's also harming his team, because his failures contribute to his team's failures. I suppose one could sometimes argue that someone is playing on for financial reasons, but that is less selfish and more one of putting money above the game, a charge levelled at many down the years, some rightly, some wrongly.

The truly selfish player is one who realises that he has, terminally, "lost it", and immediately retires, without trying a task he knows in his heart is fruitless. Not every player will be able to tell when he's "lost it", as each case is different, but some can do so. This selfishness benefits the player and benefits the team, because cricket is a team sport played by individuals, where each player's contribution is a part of the team. A player who is not performing results in loss for that player and for the team. In cricket, being selfish is not always a bad thing.
 
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vcs

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Yeah but we were so thoroughly outplayed in the first and third test (particularly the third!) that it didn't hurt as much as in South Africa, where we performed in each of the three tests to good levels at times, but wound up losing 2-1.

Particularly since that third test pitch was as close to an Indian wicket as you'll get in South Africa!
Agreed. Plus Martyn batted so beautifully in that 2004 series that it dulled the pain a bit.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I wonder how much less beautifully he'd have batted had Dinesh Karthik been picked instead of Parthiv Patel for the entire series.
 

vcs

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I wonder how much less beautifully he'd have batted had Dinesh Karthik been picked instead of Parthiv Patel for the entire series.
I didn't watch the Nagpur innings but his masterclass in Chennai alongside Gillespie was chanceless to the best of my recollection..
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
I have a great regard for Ian Chappell as a batsman (he is highly under rated) as captain (he is one of the best one has seen) and as commentator (he is always good) but he has this tendency to use very strong words and to put more emphasis on the point he is making than is needed. This results in his putting his foot in his mouth once in a while (not a great surprise for an Aussie). In this respect he is like Bishen Bedi except that Bedi does in in every sentence :dry:

I feel when Chappell wrote that article, Sachin was surely still not out of his worst patch. Many had suggested that he should quit (nonsense in my humble opinion) and many others that he should be dropped from the Indian team which was almost justified I think. It is silly to think a player out of form, howsoever great, should not be dropped, or rested if you please. A spell away from the crease, some time in the early 2000's, would have done Sachin a spot of good and he would have come back to form earlier and would have looked better as he has always done when laid down by injuries.
.
Good post. Chappell has had a history of attacking 'elderly' members of teams. Remember his massive crusade against Steve Waugh.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I didn't watch the Nagpur innings but his masterclass in Chennai alongside Gillespie was chanceless to the best of my recollection..
I'm not sure about the Nagpur knocks, but he definately offered an easy stumping that Patel completely messed-up in his second-innings at the Chepauk.

India would probably have won that game with a fifth day anyway, but had Patel taken that chance they could've won it even with the rain on day-five.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Good post. Chappell has had a history of attacking 'elderly' members of teams. Remember his massive crusade against Steve Waugh.
That was nothing to do with Waugh being elderly, he hated Waugh all career.

It's not that unusual, certainly not confined to Ian Chappell, to start writing the obituaries of "older" players. Gets most ridiculous if the player's a batsman and hasn't even hit his 35th birthday.
 

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