Don't confuse opinions and facts. The fact that they churned out very good performance(s) after the match in question means that they weren't quite over the hill as you seem to think in 2001.
Who is they it can't be Hayward & Klusener since they didn't produce any notable performances againts a top quality team after that test. The rather failed in AUS & where dropped afterwards for the SA test set-up pretty much all together.
The "over the hill" argument doesn't apply to Ntini. Since i said he had not become test quality yet IMO. Ntini between his debut in 98 to 2003 was very average test bowler. IMO Ntini didn't become test quality until 2003 when he took 10 wickets @
Lord's
Kallis is the one thats debatable. I have said that from the start.
By quality I did not mean an all time great attack. It was merely a good attack.Anyway I mentioned that I don't rate this innings of his all that high, so you don't have to get your pants in a bunch.
Well thank god you don't. This is an improvement from other posters who have been championing that innings..
Sehwag came into bat in the first session itself. Another one of ridiculous arguments goes out of the window.
Haa. Yo you doing a very good job of proving to me conclusively that you didn't watch a BALL of this test. Read what cricinfo overview of what occured on
Day 1 of that test.
cricinfo said:
The floodlights were turned on for the last hour at Goodyear Park on Saturday, but the glow that suffused the first day of the first Castle Lager/MTN Test came largely from a majestic Sachin Tendulkar century.
Tendulkar has made higher Test match scores, but he can rarely, if ever, have played better than in taking 155 of a South African attack that had threatened to rip through the Indian batting.
Tendulkar's innings, 105 on debut for Virender Sehwag and a fifth wicket stand of 220 lifted India from a precarious 68 for four to a position of no little authority at 372 for seven at stumps.
It was a wonderful recovery by India, who had been asked to bat first by the South African captain Shaun Pollock. For the first hour-and-a-half Pollock's decision seemed to be vindicated as the top fell off the Indian batting.
The tourists had suffered two setbacks even before a ball was bowled. Harbhajan Singh, of whom so much is expected on this tour, was ruled out by a groin infection (technically known as epididimytis). And then, during the Indian warmup, wicketkeeper Sameer Dighe pulled a back muscle and had to be replaced by Deep Dasgupta.
From these unpromising beginnings, the day rapidly got worse for India. Rahul Dravid made just 2 before edging Pollock to Jacques Kallis at second slip, SS Das made 9 before chopping Nantie Hayward onto his off stump and then VVS Laxman, who had made a sprightly 32, was caught down the leg side off Hayward.
India were then 51 for three which soon became 68 for four when Kallis got one to kick up at Sourav Ganguly and the ball lobbed off the splice into the gully where Gary Kirsten dived forward to take a fine catch.
South Africa were clearly in charge with the innings on the verge of collapse. But Tendulkar had other ideas. He carried the attack to the South Africans with such force that India arrived at lunch on 123 for four.
Much the same followed through the afternoon. Tendulkar played one glorious shot after another and the South African attack wilted. Makhaya Ntini's first four overs cost him 36 and at one point the run rate neared five to the over.
There was also some puzzling captaincy. Both Tendkular and Sehwag milked the absence of a third man, accidentally on some occasions, but deliberately on others and any number of runs came through, past or over the slip cordon. Pollock clearly believed there was still something in the pitch for his bowlers, but the South African attack was too often wayward and the home side leaked runs in this area.
Sehwag played his hand perfectly, lending support to his senior partner throughout their stand and then stepping up a gear once Tendulkar had departed.
Ironically, it was Ntini, on the day the weakest of the South African bowlers, who finally got rid of the Little Master with a short one that Tendulkar pulled for Neil McKenzie to take a well-judged catch coming in from the square leg boundary.
It was his 26th Test century and on the way to it he became the second Indian to reach 7000 Test runs.
By then, though, India had reached 288 for five and the initiative had firmly been wrested away from the South Africans. Sehwag dominated a 63-run partnership with Dasgupta for the sixth wicket before Pollock finally squeezed one between bat and pad to bowl him and South Africa's final success came off the last ball of the day when Kallis had Anil Kumble caught behind off a thin edge.
The day, however, belonged to India who did their cause an immense amount of good. If South Africa had taken full advantage of the conditions, the entire Indian tour might have taken a wrong turn up a blind alley.
But Tendulkar had other ideas. At one point, just before lunch, he hit eight fours in 18 balls. "I didn't want to think about what was coming next," he said afterwards. "I thought let's just deal with the present."
Tendulkar also had the Test debutant Sehwag to encourage. "My first line to him when he came in was `I know you're tense. You're never going to be this tense again, so enjoy the moment'."
He acknowledged that there was always something in the pitch for the bowlers - "It wasn't a flat track, that's for sure" - but by the end of it all, "I feel we've done a good job today." It would be hard to disagree with him.
You see how the writer in a few quotes kept harping about how the SA bowlers wasted the conditions etc?. Well thats what i remember seeing in the Sehwag/Tendy partnership, wayward bowling, since all i ever saw from that test was highlights of that partnership.
he lunch time score was 123/4 off 27 overs & Sehwag came into bat with the score on 68/4 in 21 overs. So that has always given me the impression that any of movement was very much gone by the time Sehwag came into bat.
So SA scored 550 because the pitch flattened and India scored 200 odd because they couldn't bat? Interesting.
Thats how India usually fared away from home in those days. They didn't necessarily have to play on bowler friendly decks for the majority of the batsmen outside Tendy to look vulnerable. You remember how even an average Windies attack of Dillon/Cuffy/Collins/Sanford had defeat IND in 2002 in the caribbean on some flat pitches?
Are you seriously saying that Nehra/Zaheer = Pollock/Ntini ?
Ha no uncle. Im saying both attacks where poor, the Saffies where obviously better given that they where in home conditions. But if you compare that 2001 SA attack to some of the stuff they had in the 90s, it was clearly very average.
That again is proven by how poor they where againts AUS in 6 tests after that series. Since in SA vs AUS test series 1993/94 to 2008/09, the performances of the SA pace in the 2001/02 tests was the worst.
What is the point? You will say he fluked it just like you are saying Mahmood fluked two centuries against Donald and Pollock in SA
Well Mahmood clearly fluked it, since he didn't build on it to become world-class all-rounder. Next you might tell me Hirwani taking 16 wickets in a test againts the great Windies side, showed he was great spinner...
If Sehwag does that one innings, i'll be convinced he is great. Since i have never denied that he is special player. I just unlike most of you refuse to show a blind towards his consistent failures againts quality pace attacks in testing conditions.
During the hundred in SA, you were jumping up and down quoting SA scored 550 later on. Yet you make excuses for Australia getting bundled out for 230 odd on a day 1 pitch by a mediocre Indian attack.
Ha i like how you cats be trying to say i am making excuses for AUS when you yourself cant conclusively discredit what occured in that test.
Just answer the question do you deny that the fast spin Kumble got on day 1 when he spun out AUS int he aftermppm session was non-existant in AUS second innings as he & Harbhajan struggled to dislodge Gillespie?
Call my points rubbish all you want. I'll call yours like plenty of others already have. I haven't started anything, but I am quite prepared to finish it as long as it gives you headaches.
Others haven't discredited anything i said. I've already done shot down like 10 posters in two different threads about this. You started this specific debate about Sehwag's innings on his debut i wasn't debating with you in the first place, so yes you have to finish it...
