Who would win a test series between NZ and West Indies if play started tomorrow?

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

"Without 4-5 of their top players, they're the same quality as Bangladesh ATM."

Which top players might these be? The only top player WI has lost in the last year and some in Brian Lara. Bravo is neither a top player, nor does he equal 3-4. Also worth noting that West Indies played very well against Sri Lanka at home earlier this year. Bangladesh are at home to Sri Lanka right now and struggling.

Above all, you can't condemn West Indies without doing so to New Zealand too. It's pretty apparent that the two teams are presently on par.

 

[Evermind]

Which top players might these be? The only top player WI has lost in the last year and some in Brian Lara. Bravo is neither a top player, nor does he equal 3-4. Also worth noting that West Indies played very well against Sri Lanka at home earlier this year. Bangladesh are at home to Sri Lanka right now and struggling.

Above all, you can't condemn West Indies without doing so to New Zealand too. It's pretty apparent that the two teams are presently on par.

By without their top players, I meant players in the side already, like Gayle, Chanders etc. I don't think a lot of the rest are really test standard.

 

[JimmyGS]

Which top players might these be? The only top player WI has lost in the last year and some in Brian Lara.

Look! There's the point! Oh damn, you completely missed it.

 

[GotSpin]

By without their top players, I meant players in the side already, like Gayle, Chanders etc. I don't think a lot of the rest are really test standard.

Australia is pretty shabby too if you take out Ponting, Hussey, Clarke etc

 

[JimmyGS]

Australia is pretty shabby too if you take out Ponting, Hussey, Clarke etc

Sarcasm? I'd take Katich, Hayden, Johnson, Symonds, Watson, Siddle and Lee above whoever the other players are in the WI, any day of the week. I don't even know them for God's sake!

 

[garage flower]

Sarcasm? I'd take Katich, Hayden, Johnson, Symonds, Watson, Siddle and Lee above whoever the other players are in the WI, any day of the week. I don't even know them for God's sake!

But if you were taking out their best four players at the moment, that would probably be Johnson, Ponting, Katich and Clarke, without whom they might not beat any full strength test side except Bangladesh.

Having said that, a Windies side without Shiv, Gayle, Taylor and Sarwan would probably struggle in any reasonably strong domestic first class competition.

To get back on topic, I'd accept the evidence of the latest series, which suggested there's not much to choose between NZ and WI in tests. Perhaps a fully fit Bravo might have added the extra fiz to get Windies over the line (his absence probably hurts Windies more than Oram's does NZ).

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sarcasm? I'd take Katich, Hayden, Johnson, Symonds, Watson, Siddle and Lee above whoever the other players are in the WI, any day of the week. I don't even know them for God's sake!

Now you're embarrassing yourself.

Obviously Australia are leagues better than West Indies. Only Chanders would make that side. But to say that West Indies is only better than Bangladesh because of a handful of players is hardly a point at all. That's a third of the side that makes West Indies better than the best 11 Bangladesh players combined.

So the only genuine point to be made here is that West Indies 2nd XI is as bad as Bangladesh. And that's fair enough.

 

[Xuhaib]

Now you're embarrassing yourself.

Obviously Australia are leagues better than West Indies. Only Chanders would make that side. But to say that West Indies is only better than Bangladesh because of a handful of players is hardly a point at all. That's a third of the side that makes West Indies better than the best 11 Bangladesh players combined.

So the only genuine point to be made here is that West Indies 2nd XI is as bad as Bangladesh. And that's fair enough.

Gayle > 37 year old Haydoz

Bravo > Symonds or Watto

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Gayle > 37 year old Haydoz

Perhaps.

Bravo > Symonds or Watto

Potentially, yes. But in reality Symonds is a better batsman.

 

[zaremba]

NZ are a better side for my money.

I would dearly love to see the Windies strong again - although I'd settle for something short of the terrifying 70s/80s vintage

 

[Flem274*]

I can see both passing Pakistan and England in future. Australia, Sri Lanka=I have no idea. South Africa and India are the two that are shaping up nicely.

 

[Richard]

Still think NZ would've won in 2007/08, and still think they should've won this one in 2008/09 TBH.

 

[roseboy64]

You watched the series?

 

[Richard]

That I did indeed.

 

[roseboy64]

Didn't seem so if you said they should have won.

 

[Richard]

Why not? They had the better of the opening game which was never going to have a result with the amount of time lost, and were in a position to win the other one before a last-ditch stand staved them off.

 

[Xuhaib]

I can see both passing Pakistan and England in future. Australia, Sri Lanka=I have no idea. South Africa and India are the two that are shaping up nicely.

On what basis sir?

 

[roseboy64]

Why not? They had the better of the opening game which was never going to have a result with the amount of time lost, and were in a position to win the other one before a last-ditch stand staved them off.

From what I've seen the two teams were pretty much even. Gayle and Edwards finished at the top of the runs and wickets with a NZer behind them in each. That tells me the result was about right.

 

[Richard]

On what basis sir?

England being almost uniformly rubbish for the last 3 years and Pakistan facing a wholly uncertain immediate future - which, inevitably, leads to an uncertain present as well.

 

[Richard]

From what I've seen the two teams were pretty much even. Gayle and Edwards finished at the top of the runs and wickets with a NZer behind them in each. That tells me the result was about right.

I'm not sure it tells me that much TBH. Apart from the fact that the leading batsman\bowler in a two-Test series rarely tells you anything much, there's plenty of occasions when 2 good players can fail to be enough if 9 others are poor enough and the opposite 11 manage a bit more consistency.

As I say, for me NZ bossed the Test series but just couldn't quite summon the final punch and were denied not by expected but unexpected means (who could possibly have imagined Gayle playing a knock that restrained?)