Who will win this battle of champs?

[Perm]

Miller doesn't have a high batting average yet gets a lot. Bradman has the highest average and still doesn't have a century in the other simulation thread.

Yeah, weird things those simulators.

But that is the reason for Hayden's heavy run-scoring, because of his high average, but it's still realistic. I'm not sure, but I think the programmers probably tried to put a measure in place to prevent statistical giants like Bradman from dominating every game.

 

[Ikki]

Yeah, weird things those simulators.

But that is the reason for Hayden's heavy run-scoring, because of his high average, but it's still realistic. I'm not sure, but I think the programmers probably tried to put a measure in place to prevent statistical giants like Bradman from dominating every game.

I know what you're saying, I mean I know the reason. It wasn't much a question but an observation. Like remember Hunte's form in that all-time windies v all-time aussies sim? Weird.

 

[welshplato]

Interesting discussion about the various strengths of bowling attacks - it's a hard one to call. With such theoretically closely matched sides, the difference may well hinge on a player who has the ability to take the game away from the opponents in a session. Head and shoulders above the rest in this respect has got to be IVA Richards.
I have my doubts about Hayden and Langer thriving against that WI attack, or Gilchrist for that matter. Similarly Greenidge or Lloyd, who were both capable of taking an attack apart, might not have it so easy against Warne and McGrath. But Richards - in his pomp - could take any attack apart.
For me, it's got to be WI.

 

[welshplato]

Sorry to be ignorant and thick, but can someone tell me about these simulators. Is it a website? How to you access it?
Thanks from a Cricket Web novice

 

[bagapath]

i would expect the west indian bowling attack to be balanced by the aussie batting line-up. a marginally weaker batting line up from west indies is good enough match for this aussie attack. it is still 50-50 for me. might actually boil down to one of the great players from either side taking over and making a difference to the result. it could still be all about marshall V gilchrist, holding vs ponting, mcgrath vs greenidge or warne vs richards.

 

[NUFAN]

Mohammad Rafique 88.0 15 446 1

Interesting figures..

 

[Perm]

Interesting figures..

Didn't help that Bangladesh were only playing three bowlers.

 

[Jono]

Yeah, I have. Created a team of Bradmans with 99 batting average and 1 bowling average and pitted them against a team with 1 batting average and 99 bowling average. The simulator broke so I just played against Bangladesh.

LOL! I can't be the only one that pissed themselves laughing when reading that.

 

[Perm]

I know what you're saying, I mean I know the reason. It wasn't much a question but an observation. Like remember Hunte's form in that all-time windies v all-time aussies sim? Weird.

Nah, can't say I do.

 

[Perm]

LOL! I can't be the only one that pissed themselves laughing when reading that.

I laughed, but not to that wet extremity

 

[shortpitched713]

I laughed, but not to that wet extremity

 

[The Sean]

Interesting discussion about the various strengths of bowling attacks - it's a hard one to call. With such theoretically closely matched sides, the difference may well hinge on a player who has the ability to take the game away from the opponents in a session. Head and shoulders above the rest in this respect has got to be IVA Richards.
I have my doubts about Hayden and Langer thriving against that WI attack, or Gilchrist for that matter. Similarly Greenidge or Lloyd, who were both capable of taking an attack apart, might not have it so easy against Warne and McGrath. But Richards - in his pomp - could take any attack apart.
For me, it's got to be WI.

Nah, Viv's over-rated. He was all show.

 

[Xuhaib]

I remember simming a series like this quite a while ago on cricsim. I'll dig up the results of the first test.

2001 AUSTRALIA VS 1980 WEST INDIES at Sabina Park
5 day match
Pitch Condition: Excellent
 
1980 WEST INDIES WON THE TOSS AND ELECTED TO BOWL FIRST
  
                                     -X-
   
2001 AUSTRALIA 1st innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Matthew Hayden                     b. Holding     123   139   29    0   88.5%
Justin Langer       c. Greenidge   b. Holding      37    45    7    1   82.2%
Ricky Ponting       lbw            b. Marshall     93   122   21    0   76.2%
Mark Waugh          c. Garner      b. Marshall    101   145   19    0   69.7%
Steve Waugh         c. Garner      b. Roberts      45   101    9    0   44.6%
Damien Martyn       c. Kalli'rran  b. Garner       56   114   10    0   49.1%
Adam Gilchrist                     b. Holding      18    16    4    0  112.5%
Brett Lee           lbw            b. Garner       12     8    3    0  150.0%
Shane Warne         c. Garner      b. Roberts      18    43    4    0   41.9%
Jason Gillespie     lbw            b. Roberts       0     4    0    0    0.0%
Glenn McGrath       not out                         6    17    1    0   35.3%
 
 Total:  524/10       Overs:  125.1        Run Rate:  4.19     Extras:  15 
   
                             Day 2  1:10 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
2001 AUSTRALIA Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
M Hayden      J Langer     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                  94 (106)
M Hayden      R Ponting    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ      135 (163)
M Waugh       R Ponting    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                           58 (71)
M Waugh       S Waugh      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ              107 (192)
M Waugh       D Martyn     þþþþ                                      18 (30)
Gilchrist     D Martyn     þþþþþþ                                    25 (34)
B Lee         D Martyn     þþþ                                       13 (10)
S Warne       D Martyn     þþþþþþþþþþþþþ                             52 (104)
Gillespie     D Martyn                                                0 (4)
G McGrath     D Martyn     þþþþþ                                     22 (37)


     Fall of Wickets    94/1      229/2     287/3     394/4     412/5
                        437/6     450/7     502/8     502/9     524/10    

 Total:  524/10      Overs:  125.1         Run Rate:  4.19    Extras:  15   
  
                                     -X-

1980 WEST INDIES Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Joel Garner          24.1      4     113      2      4.68     1      1 
Malcolm Marshall     32.0      4     145      2      4.53     0      1 
Andy Roberts         27.0      8     100      3      3.70     0      0 
Michael Holding      31.0      7     107      3      3.45     2      1 
Viv Richards          6.0      1      36      0      6.00     0      0 
Alvin Kallicharran    5.0      2      14      0      2.80     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 3      No Balls: 3      Leg Byes: 8      Byes: 1 

 Total:  524/10       Overs:  125.1        Run Rate:  4.19    Extras:  15   
                                     -X-
 
 
1980 WEST INDIES 1st innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Gordon Greenidge    c. Langer      b. Gillespie     1     5    0    0   20.0%
Desmond Haynes      lbw            b. Lee          70   112   12    0   62.5%
Viv Richards        lbw            b. Lee          51    59    8    1   86.4%
Faoud Bacchus       c. Hayden      b. Gillespie    53   165    9    1   32.1%
Alvin Kallicharran                 b. Lee         105   168   21    0   62.5%
Clive Lloyd                        b. Gillespie   137   166   26    1   82.5%
Deryck Murray                      b. Gillespie     4     6    1    0   66.7%
Malcolm Marshall    c. Martyn      b. Warne        16    45    3    0   35.6%
Michael Holding     lbw            b. Lee          21    37    4    0   56.8%
Andy Roberts        c. Lee         b. Warne        25    54    5    0   46.3%
Joel Garner         not out                         3    16    0    0   18.8%
 
 Total:  499/10       Overs:  138.5        Run Rate:  3.59     Extras:  13 
   
                             Day 3  4:55 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
1980 WEST INDIES Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
Greenidge     D Haynes     þ                                          1 (7)
V Richards    D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                    82 (108)
F Bacchus     D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                           56 (143)
F Bacchus     Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ         116 (194)
C Lloyd       Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ      125 (160)
C Lloyd       D Murray     þþ                                         8 (11)
C Lloyd       M Marshall   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                          60 (100)
M Holding     M Marshall   þþ                                         4 (6)
M Holding     A Roberts    þþþþþþþþ                                  32 (66)
J Garner      A Roberts    þþþþ                                      15 (38)


     Fall of Wickets    1/1       83/2      139/3     255/4     380/5
                        388/6     448/7     452/8     484/9     499/10    

 Total:  499/10      Overs:  138.5         Run Rate:  3.59    Extras:  13   
  
                                     -X-

2001 AUSTRALIA Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Glenn McGrath        28.0      4      99      0      3.54     0      1 
Jason Gillespie      37.0      7     117      4      3.16     0      0 
Brett Lee            32.0      7     115      4      3.59     0      3 
Shane Warne          30.5      6     110      2      3.57     0      2 
Ricky Ponting         3.0      0      29      0      9.67     0      0 
Mark Waugh            8.0      3      22      0      2.75     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 0      No Balls: 6      Leg Byes: 7      Byes: 0 

 Total:  499/10       Overs:  138.5        Run Rate:  3.59    Extras:  13   
                                     -X-
 
 
2001 AUSTRALIA 2nd innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Matthew Hayden      c. Roberts     b. Marshall     15    11    3    0  136.4%
Justin Langer       c. Bacchus     b. Holding      46    94    8    0   48.9%
Ricky Ponting                      b. Marshall     28    52    5    0   53.8%
Mark Waugh          not out                       100   142   19    0   70.4%
Steve Waugh         c. Bacchus     b. Garner       19    34    4    0   55.9%
Damien Martyn       c. Haynes      b. Garner       22    22    5    0  100.0%
Adam Gilchrist                     b. Garner        0     5    0    0    0.0%
Brett Lee                          b. Marshall      0     4    0    0    0.0%
Shane Warne         c. Murray      b. Kalli'rran   24    31    5    0   77.4%
Jason Gillespie                    b. Garner       13    57    2    0   22.8%
Glenn McGrath       lbw            b. Garner        0     7    0    0    0.0%
 
 Total:  275/10       Overs:  76.2         Run Rate:  3.60     Extras:  8 
   
                             Day 4  4:01 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
2001 AUSTRALIA Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
M Hayden      J Langer     þþþþþþ                                    15 (12)
R Ponting     J Langer     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ         77 (139)
M Waugh       J Langer     þþþþ                                      10 (19)
M Waugh       S Waugh      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                         40 (56)
M Waugh       D Martyn     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                           35 (48)
M Waugh       Gilchrist    þþþþþ                                     12 (11)
M Waugh       B Lee        þ                                          3 (8)
M Waugh       S Warne      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                            32 (44)
M Waugh       Gillespie    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                    51 (108)
M Waugh       G McGrath                                               0 (13)


     Fall of Wickets    15/1      92/2      102/3     142/4     177/5
                        189/6     192/7     224/8     275/9     275/10    

 Total:  275/10      Overs:  76.2          Run Rate:  3.60    Extras:  8   
  
                                     -X-

1980 WEST INDIES Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Joel Garner          19.2      5      74      5      3.83     1      0 
Malcolm Marshall     18.0      0      73      3      4.06     0      1 
Michael Holding      15.0      5      41      1      2.73     0      0 
Andy Roberts         16.0      1      57      0      3.56     0      1 
Alvin Kallicharran    7.0      0      26      1      3.71     0      1 
Viv Richards          1.0      1       0      0      0.00     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 1      No Balls: 3      Leg Byes: 4      Byes: 0 

 Total:  275/10       Overs:  76.2         Run Rate:  3.60    Extras:  8   
                                     -X-
 
 
1980 WEST INDIES 2nd innings  (Target: 301)

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Gordon Greenidge    c. Lee         b. Gillespie    21    28    5    0   75.0%
Desmond Haynes      c. Warne       b. Gillespie    60    60   13    1  100.0%
Viv Richards        c. Gilchrist   b. Gillespie    70    64   12    2  109.4%
Faoud Bacchus                      b. Lee          15    37    2    0   40.5%
Alvin Kallicharran  c. Gilchrist   b. Warne        48    37    9    1  129.7%
Clive Lloyd         lbw            b. Warne        15    23    2    1   65.2%
Deryck Murray                      b. M Waugh       6    33    0    0   18.2%
Malcolm Marshall    not out                        22    80    4    0   27.5%
Michael Holding                    b. Gillespie    14    28    3    0   50.0%
Andy Roberts                       b. Warne         4     6    1    0   66.7%
Joel Garner         c. Hayden      b. Lee           5    14    1    0   35.7%
 
 Total:  289/10       Overs:  68.2         Run Rate:  4.23     Extras:  9 
   
                             Day 5  2:04 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
1980 WEST INDIES Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
Greenidge     D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                     49 (46)
V Richards    D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ              64 (68)
V Richards    F Bacchus    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                      47 (66)
V Richards    Kalli'rran   þþþþþþ                                    15 (12)
C Lloyd       Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                         40 (47)
D Murray      Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþ                                  19 (20)
D Murray      M Marshall   þþþþþ                                     12 (55)
M Holding     M Marshall   þþþþþþþþ                                  19 (53)
A Roberts     M Marshall   þþ                                         5 (10)
J Garner      M Marshall   þþþþþþþþ                                  19 (33)


     Fall of Wickets    49/1      113/2     160/3     175/4     215/5
                        234/6     246/7     265/8     270/9     289/10    

 Total:  289/10      Overs:  68.2          Run Rate:  4.23    Extras:  9   
  
                                     -X-

2001 AUSTRALIA Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Glenn McGrath        14.0      2      63      0      4.50     0      1 
Jason Gillespie      14.0      2      62      4      4.43     0      0 
Brett Lee            16.2      4      57      2      3.49     0      1 
Shane Warne          19.0      3      85      3      4.47     0      1 
Mark Waugh            5.0      3      16      1      3.20     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 0      No Balls: 3      Leg Byes: 2      Byes: 4 

 Total:  289/10       Overs:  68.2         Run Rate:  4.23    Extras:  9   
                                     -X-
 
 
  
 
2001 Australia      524 & 275
1980 West Indies    499 & 289
   
2001 Australia won by 11 runs
  
Man of the match: Mark Waugh

Hrm.

Cricsim would have been the gunnest sim if it did not have that 4th innings bug.

 

[welshplato]

Nah, Viv's over-rated. He was all show.

You're just trying to wind me up right? I remember him being 'all show' quite a lot in 1976 v Eng to the tune of 232 & 63, 4 & 135, 66 & 38, and unforgetably 291 at The Oval (ave 118.4)
I know that doesn't prove much in itself - but it's more the way Viv had the ability to psychologically dominate - to intimidate the bowlers - as he certainly did in that series, driven by Tony Greig's racist comments. His will is the strongest I think I've ever seen in sport. Of course, unless you can back that will with supreme talent, it will eventually weaken. Viv backed up his will to win, his will to dominate, many many times.
One thing's for sure, if Warne or McGrath or Hayden or whoever made some stupid recist remarks (which I'm sure they wouldn't), I'd put my house on the Windies winning.

 

[PhoenixFire]

You're just trying to wind me up right? I remember him being 'all show' quite a lot in 1976 v Eng to the tune of 232 & 63, 4 & 135, 66 & 38, and unforgetably 291 at The Oval (ave 118.4)
I know that doesn't prove much in itself - but it's more the way Viv had the ability to psychologically dominate - to intimidate the bowlers - as he certainly did in that series, driven by Tony Greig's racist comments. His will is the strongest I think I've ever seen in sport. Of course, unless you can back that will with supreme talent, it will eventually weaken. Viv backed up his will to win, his will to dominate, many many times.
One thing's for sure, if Warne or McGrath or Hayden or whoever made some stupid recist remarks (which I'm sure they wouldn't), I'd put my house on the Windies winning.

Yeah I think he might have been.

 

[The Sean]

You're just trying to wind me up right? I remember him being 'all show' quite a lot in 1976 v Eng to the tune of 232 & 63, 4 & 135, 66 & 38, and unforgetably 291 at The Oval (ave 118.4)
I know that doesn't prove much in itself - but it's more the way Viv had the ability to psychologically dominate - to intimidate the bowlers - as he certainly did in that series, driven by Tony Greig's racist comments. His will is the strongest I think I've ever seen in sport. Of course, unless you can back that will with supreme talent, it will eventually weaken. Viv backed up his will to win, his will to dominate, many many times.
One thing's for sure, if Warne or McGrath or Hayden or whoever made some stupid recist remarks (which I'm sure they wouldn't), I'd put my house on the Windies winning.

Well mate I thought the and the man in my av might have been the first two giveaways.

But my statement does indeed reflect how a number of CWers feel about the man. They point to his final Test average and argue that the way he batted has tended to skew people's opinions of him, and that he's not as great as his reputation today suggests.

Needless to say, I disagree with them.

 

[welshplato]

Sorry for being so thick Sean!
I'm still getting used to the feel and conventions of this site - but I suppose the photo was a bit of a giveaway - I didn't notice it - unobservant as well as thick!
Do you think it's a bit of iconoclasm? Richards has had virtually undiluted praise for so long by everyone that it's boring - so let's cut him down a peg or two.
For me (cricket playing and watching from mid sixties), I think he's the best I've ever seen.
I remember going to see him at Cardiff when he played for Glamorgan - he was 100 not out overnight - I thought, great, I'll see him cut loose this morning. What happened? Of course - he was out first ball!!!

 

[The Sean]

Ha ha - no worries mate.

I'm not sure if it's iconoclasm - I think we just all have different ways of rating and judging a player's abilities don't we? Some of the blokes don't rate Viv as highly (Silentstriker, Rich, Perm to name three) are top posters who I respect a lot - they just tend to judge a player more on his numerical output than on other, less tangible factors.

Anyway, I'm sure they'll only be too happy to tell you their thoughts on Viv in more detail.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Ha ha - no worries mate.

I'm not sure if it's iconoclasm - I think we just all have different ways of rating and judging a player's abilities don't we? Some of the blokes don't rate Viv as highly (Silentstriker, Rich, Perm to name three) are top posters who I respect a lot - they just tend to judge a player more on his numerical output than on other, less tangible factors.

Anyway, I'm sure they'll only be too happy to tell you their thoughts on Viv in more detail.

Viv Richards is the best batsman I've ever seen.......and I mean SEEN. Those that don't rate him highly are usually those who get their abacus out and decide his stats aren't good enough.

 

[Nate]

LOL! I can't be the only one that pissed themselves laughing when reading that.

That and Alien 2 made this thread.