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Battle of the Rugby World Cup players

Stefano

School Boy/Girl Captain
Lomu was an amazing athlete. He was big, strong, fast! He was unstoppable: sometimes three players were not able to stop him. If you gave him the ball, he would score a try... But, rugby is not just running.

- Have you ever seen a good kick by Lomu? I have not
- Have you ever seen a good pass by Lomu? I have not
- What about defense? When someone kicked at him, he had no idea where to go...

This is my point: Lomu was an exceptional athlete. But as a rugby player he was not as great as Kirwan, Campese.
 
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chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
If you want an all rounder Rugby player look no further then John Eales. But really its about how well someone played in their position or role in the side. Do you have a go at front rower cus they can't pass or kick the ball, its not their role in the side. A winger role is to score tries, anyhing else is a bonus.
 

Fiery

Banned
Lomu was an amazing athlete. He was big, strong, fast! He was unstoppable: sometimes three players were not able to stop him. If you gave him the ball, he would score a try... But, rugby is not just running.

- Have you ever seen a good kick by Lomu? I have not
- Have you ever seen a good pass by Lomu? I have not
- What about defense? When someone kicked at him, he had no idea where to go...

This is my point: Lomu was an exceptional athlete. But as a rugby player he was not as great as Kirwan, Campese.
Kirwan couldn't kick or tackle that well either
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If you want an all rounder Rugby player look no further then John Eales. But really its about how well someone played in their position or role in the side. Do you have a go at front rower cus they can't pass or kick the ball, its not their role in the side. A winger role is to score tries, anyhing else is a bonus.
Nowadays front rowers are expected to be able to pass the ball equally well of both hands, whereas in the past it wasn't something that worried most players or coaches. With professionalism comes a certain work ethic and these players have worked hard to get their passing to a good level.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
There's also plenty of Lomu tries that Kirwan wouldn't have a hope of scoring.
I agree. My point was that Kirwan's try was one of the all time great tries and that Lomu couldn't score a try that great.

Lomu > Kirwan
Dan, if your reading this you'll probably get a kick out me saying this:

While I agree Lomu scored tries Kirwan couldn't have gotten, it has to be said that with all the oppotunities he was presented, players like Kirwan could have scored *some* tries Lomu did. I've seen Kirwan run past and outmuscle three or four defenders in situations where he shouldn't be able to score. I think people look at Lomu and how he ran over people and think "he's so unstoppable". But with the space he was provided to do his thing, there were other wingers who could've scored in some of those situations, but wouldn't have done it in such an impressive display of brute force. Campese is one example, I've seen him slice through opposition defences when beat three/four defenders.

Again, people get Lomu because what he does is simple to get. It's impressive seeing a guy run all over people. But he often was provided plenty of space and there are some wingers who could score from his situation, only not in such an awesome display of power. Of course there were some tries only Lomu could have gotten, but I think it's overlooked how other wingers could have scored with an in-and-away, a side-step, a goose-step, a chip and chase etc in some situations.

As for Kirwan vs. Lomu. I love what I've seen of John Kirwan, he's one of my favourite players and for good reason - he was sensational. He had incredible pace, wonderful deceptive skills (watch him beat Campese all-ends-up in the second 1988 match) and was a far more complete player than Lomu. His case is helped by like a decade of good form. Thinking of him in Lomu's situation reminds me of a few tries I've seen him set-up. While he couldn't trample over some players, he was so strong and determined that he often drew in so many players committed to tackle him that he'd set up a try. One he would do with David Kirk where Kirk would go the blinds, pass to Kirwan, loop him, and score - the expectation from Kirk was that Kirwan could not only attract two defenders on him, but also free his arms and get a pass off. They did it for Auckland quite a bit and it worked a lot on the international stage. As far as I'm concermed, anybody who sets up tries like that is as good as someone who scores the try. In both cases, the winger in the reason the try occurred. So often I've seen Kirwan fend off one or two players, draw in two more who knew what it took to bring him down, and by having such an effect, he sets up a try. I don't think I've seen such a determined and confident winger like Kirwan.

Hard to see where Lomu has it over Kirwan to be honest...
 

ohtani's jacket

State Vice-Captain
I don't think people took the poll that seriously.

For the record, I think Kirwan was a better player than Lomu & in many ways just as impressive in '87 as Lomu was in '95, but it was the nature of how Lomu scored that made him so famous. If you look at the try Kirwan scored against Wales down the touch line in '87 and then Lomu trampling over Catt, Kirwan's try displays far greater skill, but Lomu's try a winger shouldn't be able to do.

If you're talking about all-round skill, Wilson was better than both of them.

And Jones was better than both of them too. He was not only player of the tournament in '87 but revolutionised the open side flanker role. Having said that, I'm not sure exactly who I'd vote for as the greatest player in World Cup history.
 
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chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Nowadays front rowers are expected to be able to pass the ball equally well of both hands, whereas in the past it wasn't something that worried most players or coaches. With professionalism comes a certain work ethic and these players have worked hard to get their passing to a good level.
End of the day the main role of a front rower is to gain yards and the main role of a winger is to score tries. Anything else is just a bonus, you not going to pick Matt Dunning over any half decent front rower cus he can kick drop goal. Its important these days to be more well rounded, but the prime objectives are still the same.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
End of the day the main role of a front rower is to gain yards and the main role of a winger is to score tries. Anything else is just a bonus, you not going to pick Matt Dunning over any half decent front rower cus he can kick drop goal. Its important these days to be more well rounded, but the prime objectives are still the same.
No I wouldn't, and you aren't likely to pick one prop over another because he has a better pass. But what I'm saying is that these guys are expected to be able to pass off both hands and put one of their team mates through a gap. It is their main objective to gain yards up the middle, as you said, but they are expected to do other things also.
 

cbuts

International Debutant
Different players in a different game. I dont think JK could have played in Lomus era - he was not built for it.

The two best tries in WC for me is Kirwans against Italy and Jonahs against England

If you are going soley on World Cups - No one has ever touched Lomu's performance in 95, not even close, it was just a shame we never saw Lomu playing at anything above 75%
 

Fiery

Banned
Different players in a different game. I dont think JK could have played in Lomus era - he was not built for it.

The two best tries in WC for me is Kirwans against Italy and Jonahs against England

If you are going soley on World Cups - No one has ever touched Lomu's performance in 95, not even close, it was just a shame we never saw Lomu playing at anything above 75%
Eh? JK was built and was bigger than most wingers playing today
 

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