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BCCI Faces Its Toughest Challenge

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
i am not sure chappell would be so bad with the youngsters...so i guess we have to agree to disagree there...
Raina, Pathan, RP Singh, SreeSanth, Balaji etc are enough examples that Chappell is not much better with youngsters as a coach.

chappell has not specifically pointed fingers at any player(s) in his report, haven't heard that dravid has done so either so without solid evidence that they underperformed or didn't support their captain or something(not saying it couldn't have happened), how is the board to take action? the notice to tendulkar and yuvraj to issue explanations for their comments to the media is a step in the right direction especially the one against tendulkar...as also the decision to stick with dravid even with news flying around that most of the team is united behind tendulkar...

as for performance, ganguly doesn't deserve to be dropped on that basis right now, i agree about the other three...
Chappell Did send sms to Rajan Bala about 'Senior Players' acting like Maafia. BCCI should have asked him to explain that. Board didn't because they didn't want to deal with it.

Ganguly deserves to dropped because scoring at a strike rate of 60 isn't much in ODIs. He has lost it and he should go.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Chappell was poor with the media and had issues with the seniors but had a good rapport with the youngsters (makes sense tbh). Definitely the right man for the job IMO.
I didn't even mention Chappell's issues with media. I dont think he can coach. Tell me how Good Irfan and Raina became under Chappell's coaching ?
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Well, yeah, I understand that there are complications unless they draw up fresh contracts. The existing ones are over, anyways, as far as I can understand the issue. That is why they have been drawing up the new contracts for such a long time now.
The point I was making was that the contracts the players had made with the sponsors might not be over yet and there might be compilations because of it.

Secondly, no, I don't mind them making as much money as they can either. It is when they come out and speak as though they don't know from where their next paisa is gonna come from that I get worked up. And by they, I mean the superstars......
I haven't seen any one do some thing like that but what can you say if some one from the media asks you what you feel regarding earning money? If you say some thing frank, it might be pompous so people may go the moral route. Not some thing to be worked up on for me.
 

adharcric

International Coach
I didn't even mention Chappell's issues with media. I dont think he can coach. Tell me how Good Irfan and Raina became under Chappell's coaching ?
Tell me how good Sreesanth and Yuvraj became under Chappell's coaching? Chappell may or may not have had a major influence on these four - we don't really know - but I can see his hard-nosed approach and emphasis on fitness helping the young prospects. By the way, Raina and Pathan went on record saying how much Chappell and his techniques had helped them.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I didn't even mention Chappell's issues with media. I dont think he can coach. Tell me how Good Irfan and Raina became under Chappell's coaching ?
That's an odd statement, because then you also have to look at Sreesanth and Munaf, who might just prove themselves to not completely suck in the future (TBH still, before adharcric gets excited).

And as for Pathan, considering Chappell was the one backing him more than any other person (including everyone on the board), how is your point valid? Basically, every coach in the history of all sports suck because you will always be able to find two players who failed during their tenure.

Again, he might be a bad coach, but that reasoning makes no sense.
 

Nishant

International 12th Man
That's an odd statement, because then you also have to look at Sreesanth and Munaf, who might just prove themselves to not completely suck in the future (TBH still, before adharcric gets excited).

And as for Pathan, considering Chappell was the one backing him more than any other person (including everyone on the board), how is your point valid? Basically, every coach in the history of all sports suck because you will always be able to find two players who failed during their tenure.

Again, he might be a bad coach, but that reasoning makes no sense.
True, basically, chappel might have messed up pathan and raina...but improved yuvraj ( by a huge amount IMO) and players like munaf Patel.....also i think that players like pathan declined because of their poor attitude. I honestly believe that Pathan thought that he was a film star and that he had cemented his place in the team for good...this led to poor fitness levels and a poor work ethic! As for raina, he can still improve....he is just taking longer!
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
True, basically, chappel might have messed up pathan and raina...but improved yuvraj ( by a huge amount IMO) and players like munaf Patel.....also i think that players like pathan declined because of their poor attitude. I honestly believe that Pathan thought that he was a film star and that he had cemented his place in the team for good...this led to poor fitness levels and a poor work ethic! As for raina, he can still improve....he is just taking longer!
So if a player improved its because of Chappell, and if he declined its because hes lazy. Sounds very probable to me, seeing as Greg Chappell was the Messiah and all. :blink:
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Raina, Pathan, RP Singh, SreeSanth, Balaji etc are enough examples that Chappell is not much better with youngsters as a coach.
none of these players except maybe balaji are exactly washed-up as players, sreesanth has been really good in tests, pathan's batting has improved and if he can improve his bowling to acceptable levels, we've got a decent allrounder on our hands...raina and r.p singh also still have time to prove their worth, they have talent, it's up to them now to prove that they can grit it out in the international arena...

Chappell Did send sms to Rajan Bala about 'Senior Players' acting like Maafia. BCCI should have asked him to explain that. Board didn't because they didn't want to deal with it.
i don't know the answer to this, you may well be right....

Ganguly deserves to dropped because scoring at a strike rate of 60 isn't much in ODIs. He has lost it and he should go.
in most matches(in which he has scored significantly) since he came back his strike rate has been in the 80s or the late 70s....i don't know how you came to this conclusion....
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Tendulkar was wrong in going public and has rightly been asked for an explaination. Good moves over all by the BCCI apart from the sponsorship bit which is likely to be illegal.
Have only skimread the thread, but from what I heard on the radio, the BCCI have finally attempted to dismantle one of the biggest problems for an Indian coach - the regional selectorial panel. Wright has said in his book what a frustrating system it was, with a different selector turning up every six months to the meetings.
 

viktor

State Vice-Captain
Tendulkar was wrong in going public and has rightly been asked for an explaination. Good moves over all by the BCCI apart from the sponsorship bit which is likely to be illegal.
About the sponsorship thing, here's an article detailing the lengths to which some of the sponsors go. Very illuminating, at least to me, and now I can see where the board is coming from though I still do not agree with them.
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1089706
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Tell me how good Sreesanth and Yuvraj became under Chappell's coaching? Chappell may or may not have had a major influence on these four - we don't really know - but I can see his hard-nosed approach and emphasis on fitness helping the young prospects. By the way, Raina and Pathan went on record saying how much Chappell and his techniques had helped them.
Last time I saw SreeSanth in a test series, he was average and His ODI performance has been so poor that he wasn't even picked for Single World Cup game, so for you to claim that SreeSanth has become a World Class talent under Chappell is pusre absurd.

Now about Yuvraj Singh - His test average since Chappell Took over has been 31 which is less than his avg 37.7 he had under Wright. In ODIs he has indeed performed a lot better but I dont know If that has anything to do with Chappell's coaching, because I didn't see any technical improvment in Yuvraj's batting.

Raina and Pathan can say whatever they want, it means zlich because their performance dont back their statements up. They obviously have to express their gratitude to their coach who kept backing them up despite their pathetic performance.
 

adharcric

International Coach
I never claimed anything. Just tried to show you how pathetic your argument for GC's inability to coach youngsters was. Several others have done so but I trust you to still not get it.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
none of these players except maybe balaji are exactly washed-up as players, sreesanth has been really good in tests, pathan's batting has improved and if he can improve his bowling to acceptable levels, we've got a decent allrounder on our hands...raina and r.p singh also still have time to prove their worth, they have talent, it's up to them now to prove that they can grit it out in the international arena...
I dont know if you watch the WI series, he was average. He was very good in SA and that's about it.His ODI performance has been poor, so no I wouldn't call him a success story of Chappell. Pathan's batting has been a big hype mostly due to his success against the Lankans. I dont think he is a success story of Chappell either esp when he isn't even considered for Tests/ODIs.

Since his return, Ganguly's strike rate has been < 70s in 4 out of 9 times he has batted.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
I never claimed anything. Just tried to show you how pathetic your argument for GC's inability to coach youngsters was. Several others have done so but I trust you to still not get it.
You didn't try to show anything but promote your own egostistic views that Raina is a super talent.

So How come Raina/Pathan are examples of Chappell's coaching success when they aren't even part of playing XI ?
 

adharcric

International Coach
You didn't try to show anything but promote your own egostistic views that Raina is a super talent.

So How come Raina/Pathan are examples of Chappell's coaching success when they aren't even part of playing XI ?
Are you incapable of proving a point without putting words in my mouth? You obviously still don't get it - my response was just a counter to show that you can't just prove or disprove Chappell's ability by citing one player who got dropped or another who topped the run charts.
 
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Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
That's an odd statement, because then you also have to look at Sreesanth and Munaf, who might just prove themselves to not completely suck in the future (TBH still, before adharcric gets excited).

And as for Pathan, considering Chappell was the one backing him more than any other person (including everyone on the board), how is your point valid? Basically, every coach in the history of all sports suck because you will always be able to find two players who failed during their tenure.

Again, he might be a bad coach, but that reasoning makes no sense.
I just chose Pathan and Raina, because they are two obvious examples. Throw in Dhoni, Kaif, SreeSanth, RP Singh, Piyush Chawla, VVS Laxman, Murali Kartik, Balaji, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Zaheer, Harbhajan, Sehwag etc, all are failure stories of Chappell's coaching.

And let's not claim that Ganguly and Zaheer became successful because of Chappell's coaching. They were thrown out of the team when they were failing, both came back on their own. They may have benefited from the time off they got from International cricket but they definately didn't benefit from Chappell's coaching.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Haha, Piyush Chawla? Seriously ...

EDIT: Yeah, probably shouldn't waste my time on such posts.
 
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Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Are you incapable of proving a point without putting words in my mouth? You obviously still don't get it - my response was just a counter to show that you can't just prove or disprove Chappell's ability by citing one player who got dropped or another who topped the run charts.
You obviulsly have the habit of jumping out of your pants at the slightest opportunity. I dont know what you are trying to show off here ?

So which Indian batsman Topped the chart and where ? What was his ranking in the World ODI/Test batsmen/bowler rating ?
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
I dont know if you watch the WI series, he was average. He was very good in SA and that's about it.His ODI performance has been poor, so no I wouldn't call him a success story of Chappell. Pathan's batting has been a big hype mostly due to his success against the Lankans. I dont think he is a success story of Chappell either esp when he isn't even considered for Tests/ODIs.

Since his return, Ganguly's strike rate has been < 70s in 4 out of 9 times he has batted.
in santh's case, s.a was his latest tour and he did very well there, so you are more or less discounting that and going back to the west indian tour? a young bowler is in the process of development and he did an excellent job in his latest stint and i did not even mention his odi skills, i am aware that he isn't a good one day bowler yet...as far as pathan goes, he batted well even in s.a in the first class matches(when most of the other top and middle order batsmen failed), so the batting has not all been hype, it's just that his bowling has plummeted so abysmally that he has become a liability to the team...in any case, he is still very young and can still improve and make his way back...as i said in no way a washed-up case....

in ganguly's case, 5 other times, the strike rate has been in the 80s and the late 70s, so these things even out...and in some situations like the one against bangladesh where only he and yuvraj offered any resistance, the slowness was completely understandable considering wickets were always falling at the other end...
 

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