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Thread: *Official* England Tour of West Indies 2019

  1. #766
    Hall of Fame Member harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Instead of tinkering with the batting, first make sure you don't go in with just 1 genuine pacer.
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  2. #767
    International Captain Woodster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Instead of tinkering with the batting, first make sure you don't go in with just 1 genuine pacer.
    Yep, the batsmen did a sterling job in the opener!
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  3. #768
    International Captain the big bambino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodster View Post
    Stats can be manipulated to serve whichever side of the argument you're on. I don't doubt they can be a valuable tool, but a full and final judgement cannot be made purely from the numbers, imo.
    Maybe so but an opinion canít generally stand in opposition to statistics. They can embellish and enlighten them but mostly conform.

  4. #769
    International Captain andmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan9 View Post
    If you want to compare first three years of international cricket...Flintoff's first 3 years , batting average of 13.63 and bowling average of 44.15.
    But that's my point. People seem to be saying Holder is better based on a short period, perhaps as short as a year for some people which is obviously a poor indicator of the overall quality of a player.
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  5. #770
    International Debutant Beamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Flint View Post
    They definitely shouldn't decide on that basis but think they might as there is a lot of politics involved. Ticket sales amongst locals will be higher if one of their own is playing. They should try to produce a simular pitch and go with 4 seamers and chase again. If they do and we select broad then it will make for a fantastic test
    Agreed. If they really wanted to boost local ticket sales they would pick Rakheem Cornwall, he is insanely popular in Antigua.

  6. #771
    International Debutant Beamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andmark View Post
    But that's my point. People seem to be saying Holder is better based on a short period, perhaps as short as a year for some people which is obviously a poor indicator of the overall quality of a player.
    I feel this article on Holder is instructive on his performances. Basically he's had a brilliant 18 months. Lets see how he goes moving forward. It should be noted that he is also a great leader and has had to carry that burden.

  7. #772
    International Captain Woodster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    Maybe so but an opinion can’t generally stand in opposition to statistics. They can embellish and enlighten them but mostly conform.
    You can filter stats to suit an argument without telling the whole picture.

    I love stats, I think they are an important tool, but they don't always tell the whole story. You can make a strong case for the quality of a batsman because he averages 45 (for example) but look into those stats and he's actually feasted in his own conditions against lesser sides such as Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, etc, with a small sample size.

    Stats are vital but they must read properly and not always taken at face value.

  8. #773
    International Captain andmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beamer View Post
    I feel this article on Holder is instructive on his performances. Basically he's had a brilliant 18 months. Lets see how he goes moving forward. It should be noted that he is also a great leader and has had to carry that burden.
    That was an interesting article, and yeah I agree with you. He has indeed been great in that period, and his leadership speaks for itself. That said, it's still too short a period to compare him to a player with a 11 year career. I think and hope he will end up being better than Flintoff, and will do if he can keep the sort of numbers in the article up, but it's too early to say he already is better.

  9. #774
    International Debutant Beamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andmark View Post
    That was an interesting article, and yeah I agree with you. He has indeed been great in that period, and his leadership speaks for itself. That said, it's still too short a period to compare him to a player with a 11 year career. I think and hope he will end up being better than Flintoff, and will do if he can keep the sort of numbers in the article up, but it's too early to say he already is better.
    I agree with your points. TBh I was just annoyed with Freddie being such a pat pat pat and making disparaging comments, so I made the comparison.
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  10. #775
    International Debutant Beamer's Avatar
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    In other news we've kept the same squad, but added Oshane Thomas officially, not just as back up. I wonder if they're considering bringing him in for a 5 pace attack? Now that would be fun
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  11. #776
    International Captain andmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beamer View Post
    I agree with your points. TBh I was just annoyed with Freddie being such a pat pat pat and making disparaging comments, so I made the comparison.
    Yeah, his comments were, to be frank, plain stupid.
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  12. #777
    International Captain the big bambino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodster View Post
    You can filter stats to suit an argument without telling the whole picture.

    I love stats, I think they are an important tool, but they don't always tell the whole story. You can make a strong case for the quality of a batsman because he averages 45 (for example) but look into those stats and he's actually feasted in his own conditions against lesser sides such as Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, etc, with a small sample size.

    Stats are vital but they must read properly and not always taken at face value.
    I agree and I’m not a fan of the overall stat. But when you do drill down into a players record the thing that will tell you whether he is a home ground player or has trouble with certain bowling types or conditions is again his stats.
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  13. #778
    International Captain Woodster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    I agree and I’m not a fan of the overall stat. But when you do drill down into a players record the thing that will tell you whether he is a home ground player or has trouble with certain bowling types or conditions is again his stats.
    Yes but looking at them in depth tells us much more than overall stats. I'll re-iterate, I think stats are a vital tool in judging a player but it's dangerous to do so based solely on the numbers. Those big moments when you need a player to stand up and produce something special and get your team back into the game is difficult to put into numbers.

  14. #779
    International Captain Woodster's Avatar
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    It was a rather disparaging comment from Freddie, I'm slightly surprised he put that out there.
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  15. #780
    International Captain the big bambino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodster View Post
    Yes but looking at them in depth tells us much more than overall stats. I'll re-iterate, I think stats are a vital tool in judging a player but it's dangerous to do so based solely on the numbers. Those big moments when you need a player to stand up and produce something special and get your team back into the game is difficult to put into numbers.
    Actually you can quantity those moments too.



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