DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[The Battlers Prince]

Although I disagree with statistical analysis as a sole judge, I’m always fascinated by your countdowns DoG.
Looking forward to the rest of the list

 

[Brian Lara]

No.95

Danish Kaneria (Pakistan) 655

Quality Points: 579
Career Points: 76

Career: 2000-2010
Wickets: 261
Gold Performances: 1
7/118 vs. Sri Lanka at Karachi 2004 (16.67)
Silver Performances: 12
Bronze Performances: 4

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 31.01 (34.80) 69.35 (67.80) 4.56
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2000-2005): 27.42 61.36 5.16
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 32.17 69.26 4.24
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 33.41 73.98 4.32

DoG, can you explain how kaneria came out as level as Lyon despite being outperformed significantly in average and strike rate? What was the levelling factor here? Just really curious to understand the rankings a bit more.

Edit: also, 12 silver performances is a hell of an achievement. Do number of overs come into a performance rating at all?

 

[Bolo]

Interesting start. Im loving the gold performances feature.

The overall/peak/away averages dont interest me so much but the quality opposition average does.

Different strokes for different folks. Overall and away (plus quality adjusted) averages are what really count to me.

Gold performances are an interesting novelty- fun to look at, but wouldn't factor them into assessing how good a player is- there's every chance they are a negative.

 

[ankitj]

I hope DoG can do another list after this one ranking bowlers on the basis of how good they would have been if they were Australian. That's the only measure that matters

 

[Days of Grace]

DoG, can you explain how kaneria came out as level as Lyon despite being outperformed significantly in average and strike rate? What was the levelling factor here? Just really curious to understand the rankings a bit more.

Edit: also, 12 silver performances is a hell of an achievement. Do number of overs come into a performance rating at all?

Points per innings for Kaneria were significately higher (or wickets per innings)

 

[Days of Grace]

Different strokes for different folks. Overall and away (plus quality adjusted) averages are what really count to me.

Gold performances are an interesting novelty- fun to look at, but wouldn't factor them into assessing how good a player is- there's every chance they are a negative.

Um, what do you mean that gold performances are a negative?

 

[Bolo]

Um, what do you mean that gold performances are a negative?

An outstanding performance will be counterbalanced by below par performances elsewhere. Effectively it rewards inconsistency. As a general rule, I think consistency is preferable. It's hard to say it holds true for all players though, and your method likely gives less problems than something like 5 wicket hauls. Maybe it outweighs the inconsistency issue; I'm not sure.

 

[Days of Grace]

If you look at the orginal post of this thread you’ll find that overall career/non-home/quality opposition performances FAR outweigh outstanding performances (which will anyway be factoted into averages/strike-rates/PPI).

 

[Bolo]

It's a comment on preferences more than anything. I'd possibly like to see a zero weight, or possibly a negative one (unclear to me because your system is better than simple metrics). Nufan would probably like to see a higher one. You can't satisfy both of us, and it's not clear that it would be better to satisfy either of us.

Anyway, including it definitely makes the countdown far more interesting, so I'm glad it's in there.

 

[Brian Lara]

Points per innings for Kaneria were significately higher (or wickets per innings)

I see that now. That really surprises me, he has a higher points per innings than bond!

 

[Days of Grace]

I see that now. That really surprises me, he has a higher points per innings than bond!

Not true. 4.56 vs 5.68 for Bond.

 

[Brian Lara]

Not true. 4.56 vs 5.68 for Bond.

I meant higher ppi vs quality opposition

 

[Days of Grace]

I meant higher ppi vs quality opposition

Ah, yes. Well he played against a lot more quality opposition than Bond did. And Bond’s best performances were against West Indies and Zimbabwe.

 

[NUFAN]

Different strokes for different folks. Overall and away (plus quality adjusted) averages are what really count to me.

Gold performances are an interesting novelty- fun to look at, but wouldn't factor them into assessing how good a player is- there's every chance they are a negative.

Just to clarify, overall stats are so important, I just meant I find it less interesting to read and not important when working out DOGs rankings.

The quality average and gold performances gives me insight as to why DOGs ranking is the way it is.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.92

Peter Siddle (Australia) 665

Quality Points: 606
Career Points: 58

Career: 2008-2016
Wickets: 211
Gold Performances: 1
6/54 vs. England at Brisbane 2010
Silver Performances: 6
Bronze Performances: 3

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.83 (29.92) 62.38 (61.34) 3.69
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2010-2013): 22.89 53.27 4.66
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 29.30 67.36 3.43
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 25.44 58.68 4.09

Tried to post an image of Siddle's heart but the sheer amount of data would have crashed the forum.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

So happy to see Sidds, wag

 

[Days of Grace]

No.91

Hedley Verity (England) 666

Quality Points: 624
Career Points: 42

Career: 1931-1939
Wickets: 144
Gold Performances: 2
7/61 vs. Australia at Lord's 1934 (16.53)
8/43 vs. Australia at Lord's 1934 (18.92)
Silver Performances: 2
Bronze Performances: 1

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 23.65 (24.38) 70.62 (77.59) 3.69
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1931-1937): 21.52 61.16 4.03
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.29 80.27 3.67
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 25.14 71.15 3.74

Like other forum posters, I expected Verity to finish higher. A great set of averages but a high strike-rate and relatively low PPI means that he only ranks at no.91.

 

[NUFAN]

On second thoughts this list is rubbish, Sid about 75 spots too low.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.90

Neil Wagner (New Zealand) 667

Quality Points: 627
Career Points: 40

Career: 2012-
Wickets: 149
Gold Performances: 1
7/39 vs. West Indies at Wellington 2017 (16.94)
Silver Performances: 2
Bronze Performances: 3

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.38 (28.26) 55.69 (52.97) 4.13
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2013-2017): 23.80 50.52 4.53
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.37 60.96 3.46
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.41 55.65 4.24

 

[mr_mister]

Should factor in that most of the time Verity had Bradman waiting to receive his balls at the other end