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Thread: Wisden's Cricketers of the Century

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz
    1) So just because Warnie bowled one great ball and our generation was fortunate enough to witness it, he should be guaranteed a place in Top 5 cricketers of the Century ?? Or the reason that he has inspired a bunch of kids in England to take up spin bowling is enough for him ro be considered as top 5 cricketers of Century ?

    In that case, one should also know that no. of Kids inspired by Tendulkar is much more than those inspired by Warnie.

    2) As for your logic about not many of us have watched Qadir bowl...Well How many of us have actually watched Bradman, Sobers, Hammond, Hobbs play ??
    2 things here:

    1) Sorry, but heís bowled far more than 1 good ball. And donít be so sure that Sachin has inspired more.

    2) That wasnít his point. His point was that Qadir didnít inspire many people in his generation, because no-one saw him.
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  2. #182
    International Debutant a massive zebra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz
    Well I agree that Warnie is a much better bowler than Qadir and a better match winner, but There have been many players who have been better match winners than Warnie. So just because Warnie is the only decent Leg spinner in last 15 years shouldn't guarntee him a place in the history books.

    Your logic of Qadir playing in drawn Games doesn't make any sense because in 70s-80s most of the tests used to end of as draw.
    All very true.
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  3. #183
    International Coach biased indian's Avatar
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    what is that shane warne doing in the list

    even though his personnal life is not be discussed he should be a role model in every sense

    and he simply failed aganist the best team that plays spin in favourable conditions
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  4. #184
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    1) He has played 3 series in India.
    2) The first was his debut series.
    3) The second was just before his shoulder injury Ė which he was already feeling after the marathon summer.
    4) The third was just after a broken spinning finger.


  5. #185
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Halsey
    So, lets have a look at things. Qadir averaged 32odd, despite bowling largely in Pakistan, and apart from odd spells was largely average. Of course, occasionally he was a match winner, but nowhere near Warneís match winning skills. Another point: spin will never die out in Asia, but in countries where it most certainly will, i.e. England, etc. he inspired tons of kids to pick up a ball and flip leggies to each other in the outfield. Me for one.
    Halsey, Once again just because Warnie inspired bunch of kids England to take up legspin doesn't mean that he qualifies as the top 5 cricketers of the century. You will have to come up with something better than that.

    Here is an analogy, Believe it or not but it is true. IMO, Wasim Akram revived the art fast bowling especially Left Arm fast bowling and inspired millions of people and If you have not been following Indian cricket let me list the names of some of those who were inspired by him - Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, Ashish Nehra. the strees of Pakistan are full of fast bowlers trying to bowl like Akram. Forget left armers even right arm bowlers were inspired by him. Just take a look at the Kabir Alis and sadiq Mahmoods ( ??) in england. And Believe Akram was no less of a match winner than Warnie. If warnie has inspired so many kids in England and Australia, then where are they ??

    As far as Avg. of Qadir is concerned, look at the no. of Fifers and Tens he took in 43 tests less than Warnie.

  6. #186
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Halsey
    2 things here:
    1) Sorry, but heís bowled far more than 1 good ball.
    Well Once again, you are taking it literally. I was talking about the one ball which supposedly inspire many kids in End.(who are these kids and where are they ? I hope they are working as hard as Warnie and preparing for England Call and not posting on such forums)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Halsey
    And donít be so sure that Sachin has inspired more.
    You have no Idea. Go to the streets in India and you will notice the Tendulkar effect (If you haven't watched Sehwagh already). Hell are we going to compare Indian Population with that of england now ?

    2) That wasnít his point. His point was that Qadir didnít inspire many people in his generation, because no-one saw him.
    Well No one say Bradman, Sobers, Hobbs, Hammond etc either then what are they doing in that list ? As for watching Qadir, speak for yourself. I watched him play and he was good may be not as good as warnie, but he was still very good.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz
    Well I agree that Warnie is a much better bowler than Qadir and a better match winner, but There have been many players who have been better match winners than Warnie. So just because Warnie is the only decent Leg spinner in last 15 years shouldn't guarntee him a place in the history books.

    Your logic of Qadir playing in drawn Games doesn't make any sense because in 70s-80s most of the tests used to end of as draw.
    yes more test were drawn back then...but which team has turned that on its head???(AUSTRALIA i hear you all shout). and which bowler has played an integral part in this almost 'result at all cost' attitude which has almost revolutionised test cricket...yes you guessed it..Shane Warne.

    The guy has been instrumental in contributing to an era of test cricket which must be the most entertaining for the masses(by that i mean no draws, well hardly any) since god knows when (late 40?).For non subcontinent teams the attitude changed from spin not being all that important (and was considered a rather defensive discipline) to being a game winning art, when Warne came onto the scene...and I will challenge you to find one single bowler that has had that influence on the game in the last 50 years.

    They guy not only has been the only decent leggie of the last 15 years ,but probably has been the best leg spinner since the second world war...and some would say the best ever (I think Benaud has said he is the best he has ever seen, and I think he has seen a few...and he wasnt a bad one himself).

    If back in 1990 you would have said to someone that in 2004, a leg spinner from Australia would have almost 520 test wickets, you would have been laughed at...it would have been considered impossible...but he has changed the face of the game so much that that fact is easily forgotten
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  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    If back in 1990 you would have said to someone that in 2004, a leg spinner from Australia would have almost 520 test wickets, you would have been laughed at...it would have been considered impossible...but he has changed the face of the game so much that that fact is easily forgotten
    And you would have been even less likely to believe a spinner from Sri Lanka would have even more wickets.

  9. #189
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz
    Well Once again, you are taking it literally. I was talking about the one ball which supposedly inspire many kids in End.(who are these kids and where are they ? I hope they are working as hard as Warnie and preparing for England Call and not posting on such forums)


    leg spin is the hardest cricketing discipline to master,and so therefore many of the kids may have given up on it already,but he ceratinly made a thousands of people get interested in the art of leg spin all around the world (i tried to get to grips with it but failed,and have now given up as i have dodgy tendons in my wrist)(no comments please )

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz
    So just because Warnie bowled one great ball and our generation was fortunate enough to witness it, he should be guaranteed a place in Top 5 cricketers of the Century ??

    It's not just that - you underestimate the impact on World Cricket that Warne has had - it's not just one ball.
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  11. #191
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a massive zebra
    And you would have been even less likely to believe a spinner from Sri Lanka would have even more wickets.

    only for the fact that he was to be from Sri Lanka, who were pretty poor back then. It would have been more believable that an off spinner be more successful than a leg spinner over a long period of time.

    The point i am trying to make is that Warne was from pace orientated Australia...back then the lack of a spinner from a non-subcontinent team wasnt considered that much of a handicap.....but it is now

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    yes more test were drawn back then...but which team has turned that on its head???(AUSTRALIA i hear you all shout). and which bowler has played an integral part in this almost 'result at all cost' attitude which has almost revolutionised test cricket...yes you guessed it..Shane Warne.

    The guy has been instrumental in contributing to an era of test cricket which must be the most entertaining for the masses(by that i mean no draws, well hardly any) since god knows when (late 40?).For non subcontinent teams the attitude changed from spin not being all that important (and was considered a rather defensive discipline) to being a game winning art, when Warne came onto the scene...and I will challenge you to find one single bowler that has had that influence on the game in the last 50 years.
    So you're saying that all of Australia's recent revolutionary sucess is solely because of Warne? I think the likes of the Waugh's, McGrath, Taylor, Slater etc contributed more to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    They guy not only has been the only decent leggie of the last 15 years ,but probably has been the best leg spinner since the second world war...and some would say the best ever (I think Benaud has said he is the best he has ever seen, and I think he has seen a few...and he wasnt a bad one himself).
    Anil Kubmle qualifies as a 'decent' leggie. I can't remember any more names but surely there were other decent leggies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    If back in 1990 you would have said to someone that in 2004, a leg spinner from Australia would have almost 520 test wickets, you would have been laughed at...it would have been considered impossible...but he has changed the face of the game so much that that fact is easily forgotten
    Wasim Akram and Kapil Dev had a similar effect in the sub-continent.
    You talking to IR?

  13. #193
    State Captain chicane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    yes more test were drawn back then...but which team has turned that on its head???(AUSTRALIA i hear you all shout). and which bowler has played an integral part in this almost 'result at all cost' attitude which has almost revolutionised test cricket...yes you guessed it..Shane Warne.

    The guy has been instrumental in contributing to an era of test cricket which must be the most entertaining for the masses(by that i mean no draws, well hardly any) since god knows when (late 40?).For non subcontinent teams the attitude changed from spin not being all that important (and was considered a rather defensive discipline) to being a game winning art, when Warne came onto the scene...and I will challenge you to find one single bowler that has had that influence on the game in the last 50 years.
    So you're saying that all of Australia's recent revolutionary sucess is solely because of Warne? I think the likes of the Waugh's, McGrath, Taylor, Slater etc contributed more to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    They guy not only has been the only decent leggie of the last 15 years ,but probably has been the best leg spinner since the second world war...and some would say the best ever (I think Benaud has said he is the best he has ever seen, and I think he has seen a few...and he wasnt a bad one himself).
    Anil Kubmle qualifies as a 'decent' leggie. I can't remember any more names but surely there were other decent leggies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    If back in 1990 you would have said to someone that in 2004, a leg spinner from Australia would have almost 520 test wickets, you would have been laughed at...it would have been considered impossible...but he has changed the face of the game so much that that fact is easily forgotten
    Wasim Akram and Kapil Dev had a similar effect in the sub-continent.

  14. #194
    State Captain chicane's Avatar
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    sorry bout that, my net connection sux.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    only for the fact that he was to be from Sri Lanka, who were pretty poor back then. It would have been more believable that an off spinner be more successful than a leg spinner over a long period of time.
    You are correct in saying that leg-spin is harder to master, and consequently it is harder to become a good legspinner than to become a good off-spinner. Unsurprisingly you see more good offspinners than legspinners. But it is not easier to become a world-class offspinner than it is to become a world-class legspinner, it takes just as much skill and hard work to be truely great at both. If it was easier to become a great offspinner than it was to become a great legspinner, there would have been more great offspinners in the past than great legspinners. In reality by my judgement there have been three of both. Off spin - Laker, Gibbs, Muralitharan. Leg spin - Grimmett, O'Reilly, Warne. Plus Ramadhin who bowled both varieties. It cannot be easier to become a legend at the off variety or we would have seen more of them.

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