Smith v Ponting

[Coronis]

I dislike just putting No. of tests in an argument like this.

It's actually absolutely pointless, should always be innings and given the importance of the century stat we place in the game, centuries/per innings should always be there.

Ponting:

Mat: 168
Innings: 287
Ave: 51.85
100's: 41
Innings/100: 7.00

Smith:

Mat: 61
Innings: 111
Ave: 63.75
100's: 23
Innings/100: 4.82

Whilst centuries aren't the only thing that matters this is an intriguing stat to look at. Of the 43 batsmen who average at least 50, the ones who score centuries most often are: Bradman (2.76), Headley (4.00), Smith (4.83), Walcott (4.93), Sutcliffe (5.25), Kambli (5.25), Weekes (5.40), Kohli (5.40), Pollock (5.86). Looking at the top 5 in the countdown thread going we have Sobers (6.15) - 12th, Tendulkar (6.45) - 19th, Hobbs (6.80) - 25th, Lara (6.84) - 26th, Richards (7.58) - 32nd.

 

[vcs]

I already rate Kohli ahead of Tendulkar. Tendulkar has that longevity thing going for him though.

ODIs or Tests?

I can understand people not valuing longevity much in ODIs. Given the disproportionate importance of ICC tournaments, you only have to dominate one or two to be considered a great (e.g. Starc), although Kohli hasn't even done that yet, while Sachin was the best batsman in 3 different World Cups. In Tests though, longevity is a huge asset and Kohli has miles to go to get anywhere near Sachin.

 

[Spark]

I can only assume that he means ODIs, which is defensible imo

In Tests, nah

 

[TheJediBrah]

ODIs or Tests?

I can understand people not valuing longevity much in ODIs. Given the disproportionate importance of ICC tournaments, you only have to dominate one or two to be considered a great (e.g. Starc), although Kohli hasn't even done that yet, while Sachin was the best batsman in 3 different World Cups. In Tests though, longevity is a huge asset and Kohli has miles to go to get anywhere near Sachin.

More so shorter forms. Obviously got a bit of work to do in Tests, but I think he will be better than Sachin

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, he is technically superior to Tendulkar, isn't he? Specially when playing outswing on the off stump.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah, England in 2005 might have been better but Ponting played in a number of other series where England's attack was decent but nothing to write home about.

Although Australia pitches have been very flat recently, they often were back then too - we just had a great bowling attack and scored really quickly, so draws and complaints about boring cricket never really came into being.

I think the fact that Smith is one of only two world class batsmen, rather than one of four or more, also plays into his hands when being rated.

Interesting point this. Transplant Ponting to the current line-up and would it work? I don't think he was the type to be the one guy standing up in a **** line-up like Smith often is. Being the gun in a line-up of guns in a team on the up was more what he was used to for Oz and Tassie.

 

[Top_Cat]

Right now, I'd say Smith is as feared as Ponting was at his peak, notwithstanding his ridiculous stats at present. I don't think he's clearly better yet, though.

On Ponting's India record, without checking, I'm fairly certain it was generally Harbhajan and Kumble knocking him over - two world-class bowlers in those conditions. Ponting did the job against spin too often for it to be a simple weakness. That said, although he repaired his stats a little last tour he definitely wasn't the feared player in other conditions, had to work his knackers off for every run.

 

[Spark]

Interesting point this. Transplant Ponting to the current line-up and would it work? I don't think he was the type to be the one guy standing up in a **** line-up like Smith often is. Being the gun in a line-up of guns in a team on the up was more what he was used to for Oz and Tassie.

It would work amazingly well with Smith behind him. Counterattack from 3, grind them into the dirt from 4.

 

[Gob]

It would work amazingly well with Smith behind him. Counterattack from 3, grind them into the dirt from 4.

And God mode Clarke @ 5

 

[Daemon]

It would work amazingly well with Smith behind him. Counterattack from 3, grind them into the dirt from 4.

would've never guessed that replacing khawaja with ponting would work out well

 

[Top_Cat]

It would work amazingly well with Smith behind him. Counterattack from 3, grind them into the dirt from 4.

Yeah but that's not what I was saying. I'm saying if Ponting replaces Smith in the current line-up, don't think he'd do as well.

 

[vcs]

And God mode Clarke @ 5

Funny thing is, none of them come anywhere near making an Aussie all-time side as well (Smith can still get there TBF).

 

[morgieb]

And God mode Clarke @ 5

Hussey at 6 too.

**** that batting lineup would've been nasty with a good 4.

 

[Gob]

liking the look of Estraya best batting lineup post 1990

Hayden
Warner
Ponting
Smith
Clarke
SR Waugh
Gilchirst

 

[Black_Warrior]

lol no way Warner ahead of Langer.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Warner's probably better than Hayden too tbh. Massively underrated.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Hayden in India 01 > anything Warner has done

 

[vcs]

No way

Hayden was a beast.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hayden in India 01 > anything Warner has done

Warner in SA in 2014 arguably just as good.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I rate Hayden higher because Indian pitches are far more challenging for an Australian batsmen than South African pitches are for them. This is not even about the quality of the attacks. It's just about what's of greater difficulty for a player.