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Thread: Is test cricket about to enter a golden phase of captaincy?

  1. #106
    The Tiger King smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    People seem to be underrating the soft skills when it comes to captaincy. I don't know much about how tactically sound Misbah was but it was all those other intangibles that made him a great captain.

    Ponting had that too. Was a proper leader. Imagine someone like Root trying to lead those guys, you think a bloke like Symonds is going listen to what the kid has to say?
    Great post. Arguably the biggest part of captaincy is man management. Some really good ones over the years. Ian Chappell, Imran, Border, Ganguly, Dhoni, Graeme Smith, Stephen Fleming, Misbah, Ranatunga etc. All these guys commanded respect from their team mates and got the best out of their players. The players would listen to them. What exactly made the guys listen to them was probably different in each case but all of these guys were fantastic man managers with different sorts of soft skills which made them great.
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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  2. #107
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    Chris Morris credits Faf du Plessis' captaincy for South Africa revival | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

    He's been really good so far at the helm. Brilliant in Australia.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Chris Morris credits Faf du Plessis' captaincy for South Africa revival | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

    He's been really good so far at the helm. Brilliant in Australia.
    Thanks was just going to bring this up. Its amazing how much a captain can change things so quickly.

  4. #109
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    ^ And this also highlights how much of the game is not quantitative and a large part of that is captaincy/leadership/the human aspect. How to you asses in data what Faf just did with Morris there?
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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    ^ And this also highlights how much of the game is not quantitative and a large part of that is captaincy/leadership/the human aspect. How to you asses in data what Faf just did with Morris there?
    The team's performance improved so that is how you quantify it.

  6. #111
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    That still does not quantify captaincy though. The numbers go in favour of Morris the bowler. There is nothing that gets added to Faf's career stats.
    Last edited by Black_Warrior; 16-07-2017 at 11:43 PM.

  7. #112
    International Captain TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    The team's performance improved so that is how you quantify it.
    No that would be absurd. If that's how you quantify it then you're effectively saying that there are no other factors that determine a team's performance other than the captaincy.
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  8. #113
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    I reckon if you combined the best parts of Ponting with the best parts of Clarke, you'd have one hell of a captain.

    Which is probably Frank Worrell or someone like that.
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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJediBrah View Post
    No that would be absurd. If that's how you quantify it then you're effectively saying that there are no other factors that determine a team's performance other than the captaincy.
    No, thats not what I am saying. Im not saying that if a team improves it is only due to captaincy. What I am saying is that the ultimate judge of any captain, be it through their tactics or man management skills, is if the team performance improves under his captaincy. What constitutes 'improvement' though can be debated. It may not be just through more wins and less losses, especially if he is regularly playing vastly superior teams or vastly inferior teams.

    It is kind of hard to suggest someone is a good captain if his captaincy has no positive effect on team performance. That is the whole point of captaincy.

  10. #115
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    AWTA to a degree, but there are other factors to consider as well.

    EG Australia under Ponting went from ATG side to a significantly weaker one. You cant pin the retirements of 4 or 5 great players during his tenure on his captaincy.
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  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    No, thats not what I am saying. Im not saying that if a team improves it is only due to captaincy. What I am saying is that the ultimate judge of any captain, be it through their tactics or man management skills, is if the team performance improves under his captaincy. What constitutes 'improvement' though can be debated. It may not be just through more wins and less losses, especially if he is regularly playing vastly superior teams or vastly inferior teams.

    It is kind of hard to suggest someone is a good captain if his captaincy has no positive effect on team performance. That is the whole point of captaincy.
    You said you can quantify it. How so?

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    You said you can quantify it. How so?

    y so aggresive, bro?
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    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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  13. #118
    International Captain TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    No, thats not what I am saying. Im not saying that if a team improves it is only due to captaincy. What I am saying is that the ultimate judge of any captain, be it through their tactics or man management skills, is if the team performance improves under his captaincy. What constitutes 'improvement' though can be debated. It may not be just through more wins and less losses, especially if he is regularly playing vastly superior teams or vastly inferior teams.

    It is kind of hard to suggest someone is a good captain if his captaincy has no positive effect on team performance. That is the whole point of captaincy.
    How is that quantifying it though, as you said? It can't be, because, as I said, you can't use team performance or improvement as a quantitative measure because there are obviously many other factors in play

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