**Official** County Cricket 2017

[S.Kennedy]

Looks like Worcestershire might finally see some of John Hastings this season. He is a good signing if he stays fit.

Yeah but the West Indies pacemen of the 70s and 80s were, gasp, not as fast as most bowlers who are around today.

I'm not sure I agree with that in light of the fact that there were rarely any empirical recordings of pace. One we do have is for Andy Roberts who was clocked at 99.1 miles per hour at Perth in 1975. It seems reasonable to conclude that Messrs Holding, Marshall et al. achieved similar speeds considering Roberts was not marked out as being the fastest of the 'quartet' by batsman who faced the West Indies at that time and later. We also know Jeff Thompson - not Windies but similar era - clocked 99.7 miles per hour in 1976.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Bloody hell northerners, are you even trying?

 

[AndrewB]

I read an article somewhere and it theorised that cricketers are actually playing less today (contrary to current opinion). There was certainly less test/one-day cricket but far more championship cricket. If they played 28 three-day matches to our current 14 four-dayers, you arrive at the figure of 84 days of championship cricket to our 56 - assuming full play. There was probably more limited overs matches also as there were three List A competitions in operation from 1972 (i.e. the Gillette Cup, the Sunday League and the Benson & Hedges Cup). Since 2010 there have only been two limited overs competitions, a List A and the Twenty20.

They reduced it to 24 (3-day) Championship matches when the Sunday League came in (1969), and to 20 when the B&H Cup started in 1972 (it did go back up to 22 in 1977 and 24 in 1983).

 

[fredfertang]

At one point some of the counties played all the others home and away, so 32 three day matches

 

[S.Kennedy]

They reduced it to 24 (3-day) Championship matches when the Sunday League came in (1969), and to 20 when the B&H Cup started in 1972 (it did go back up to 22 in 1977 and 24 in 1983).

But I could only use one figure for comparison's sake so couldn't get involved in those intricacies! It was fluctuating at around 28 between 1929 - 1968 (26, 1946 - 9; 32 [for some teams] 1960 -2) so I selected that figure, my point being If you are looking for a figure of the championship at its lengthiest that remained relatively fixed, 28 seems the most apt.

 

[S.Kennedy]

At one point some of the counties played all the others home and away, so 32 three day matches

1960 - 2.

Also, between 1890-91, 1895-1928 and 1933-9 the fixture list was fluid. Counties arranged their own fixtures and big clubs like Yorkshire managed to play everybody home/away (28 in those days). The smaller clubs struggled to gather together 12 fixtures per season. A lot of it was to do with the amateur v professionalism thing: to play a whole season you needed to have many professionals, and clubs, either through the romantic love of amateurism (Somerset for instance) or lack of funds, couldn't afford tons of professionals like Surrey and the big northern powerhouses. Some of it was also simply to do with ''unfashionable fixtures' (your Northants, Derbyshires and Leicestershires).

 

[91Jmay]

Looks like Worcestershire might finally see some of John Hastings this season. He is a good signing if he stays fit.



I'm not sure I agree with that in light of the fact that there were rarely any empirical recordings of pace. One we do have is for Andy Roberts who was clocked at 99.1 miles per hour at Perth in 1975. It seems reasonable to conclude that Messrs Holding, Marshall et al. achieved similar speeds considering Roberts was not marked out as being the fastest of the 'quartet' by batsman who faced the West Indies at that time and later. We also know Jeff Thompson - not Windies but similar era - clocked 99.7 miles per hour in 1976.

Those old speed recordings are absolute junk. Total nonsense. It makes absolutely no biometric sense that guys in the 80s bowl faster than guys now. No way on planet earth 5'10 Andy Roberts bowled 5 miles an hour faster than 6'2 specimen like Mitchell Johnson. Anyone who believes that needs to give their head a wobble.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Those old speed recordings are absolute junk. Total nonsense. It makes absolutely no biometric sense that guys in the 80s bowl faster than guys now. No way on planet earth 5'10 Andy Roberts bowled 5 miles an hour faster than 6'2 specimen like Mitchell Johnson. Anyone who believes that needs to give their head a wobble.

I do not understand why guys who bowl now are inherently supposed to bowl better than guys who bowled then? They are all made of the same substance of tissue, blood and muscle! If you reply with 'fitness', then the post-Packer West Indians were probably the fittest side which ever played the sport of cricket.

How fast do you consider Frank Tyson? Both Bradman and Benaud called him the ''fastest bowler'' they had ever seen and they had lived through the era of the '70s and '80s tearaways. Benaud lived long enough to commentate on Akhtar, Brett Lee and Mitchell Johnson.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Those old speed recordings are absolute junk. Total nonsense. It makes absolutely no biometric sense that guys in the 80s bowl faster than guys now. No way on planet earth 5'10 Andy Roberts bowled 5 miles an hour faster than 6'2 specimen like Mitchell Johnson. Anyone who believes that needs to give their head a wobble.

Yea that's my opinion too. It reminds me of the way my dad (he's 70) goes on about football in the past and saying it's no more skilful now than it was in the past. Then I watched a documentary on Nottingham Forest in the Clough era and the little fat guy (who was supposed to be one of the best wingers in the world). Most of the teams back then would struggle to get into the League, never mind the Premier League.

Whatever pace you're used to, add on another 5mph and it'll feel like they're bowling thunderbolts.

 

[Starfighter]

Those old speed recordings are absolute junk. Total nonsense. It makes absolutely no biometric sense that guys in the 80s bowl faster than guys now. No way on planet earth 5'10 Andy Roberts bowled 5 miles an hour faster than 6'2 specimen like Mitchell Johnson. Anyone who believes that needs to give their head a wobble.

Photogrammetry should actually be as or more accurate than the radar speeds you get these days, provided that the calibration is correct, so far as I understand.
FWIW the recorded speeds mentioned on a short documentary about the studies gave Dennis Lillee as bowling at 148.5 km/h in 1975 (that's after his back injury) while at the Perth test in 1975 Lillee was recorded at 139km/h, Holding 148.54 km/h, Roberts 150.67 km/h and Thomson 160.45 km/h. There's similar figures wandering around out there from other sources.

Why would Roberts, who was actually about the same height as Johnson (188 vs 189 cm) necessarily be slower? They both have quite slingy bowling actions but I'd say that Roberts is better balanced and moves his weight more effectively through the crease than Johnson.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Mark Wood is a modern quick (94mph max) bowler with a slingy action and he is a short guy.

 

[Biryani Pillow]

I completely disagree. The best place to produce test cricketers is in county cricket, not Twenty20 nor even one-dayers. .

I agree with this - and Test cricket, despite the doomsayer,s to my certain knowledge over more than 40 years, goes on. The first class county game in no way pays for itself (never really did apart from, maybe, the early 1900s and 1947-48) but is essential for the best form of the game.

I've thought for a few years now that the English season needs a proper structure - it's such a pigs breakfast at the moment.

Allowing for an early Test series, ODI/T20 in the middle after a break and then a gap before the 'main' Test series which would sort out the international stuff the county season would set out as follows.

Early season to late June - The County Championship.

July to early August - swish and giggle.

Mid August to the end of the season Regional 4 team county competition and county OD competition.

The Championship would then have a proper focus, not as now when games seem to appear out of nowhere with no logical flow or pattern.

The swish and giggle needs a block. Let TV focus on that in the middle.

A regional competition would provide a step up for those players near to the Test squad (keeping them nicely fit in case they were needed for a Test).- and stiffer competition for promising young players. County 'time servers' who are never going to play above that level 'lesser ' young players could then go back to club cricket - which would strengthen that tier of the game.

The limited overs tournament would also have it's own focus - and cricket for other players on the staff. Hopefully avoiding Saturdays (for the club game) apart from the final.

Supporters would know what to expect to see, and follow it easier, at all times of the season, unlike now when nobody seems to know what's going on.

 

[theegyptian]

TBF the season is in distinct blocks this year. Group stages of T20 (one random championship in the middle) and 50 over played in blocks. 50 over early season and 20 over at peak summer season.

The championship has always being the focus imo. It's been the 50 over comp and to a lesser degree the T20 that has lost out to championship cricket. Teams and their players want to win the championship first.

It's mostly been the 50 over comp that has really suffered in recent years. That's why they are ploughing money into north v south 50 over games, white ball lions tours and such.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Championship should be the bloody focus!! No championship cricket in July-August is disgraceful. Although the Blast is included in my membership, I'm not even going to go and am instead going to be watching minor county/club stuff. I'll try and make some away fixtures also to make up for the ECB lopping off home fixtures. I do feel sorry for the List A stuff though which is now being played in May (winner: Duckworth-Lewis); some of my best days at the cricket have been at one-dayers, particularly at out grounds which are usually full to brimming when played at a good time (i.e. June - August).

 

[Biryani Pillow]

The Championship has not been the focus for several years. Games are rammed in for a far too early start to the season then appear at odd times before a rush at the end.

However, the average attendance which for much of its existence and certainly the last 50 years of three men and a dog (and the dog's a member) doesn't justify what should be the prime months of July and August.

Use it properly for what it has generally been - a feeder for the Test team.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Apparently this Dubai Emirates Twenty20 thingy with Durham, Lancashire and Warwickshire and some Pakistani teams will be broadcast here (official perfectly legit stream),

Prime Tv - Live Broadcasting

It starts early tomorrow morning GMT time.

The Championship has not been the focus for several years. Games are rammed in for a far too early start to the season then appear at odd times before a rush at the end.

However, the average attendance which for much of its existence and certainly the last 50 years of three men and a dog (and the dog's a member) doesn't justify what should be the prime months of July and August.

Use it properly for what it has generally been - a feeder for the Test team.

I think the championship is a wonderful thing in itself and not just as a rehearsal school for the test team - in all honesty I'm more a Durham fan than an England fan and probably a bigger fan of county cricket than test cricket - but other than that I agree. You know the last day of the season, Middx v Tykes, Toby Roland-Jones etc, the county championship was 'trending on twitter'?

 

[S.Kennedy]

I cannot get the Prime stream working but I've managed to get a dodgy Channel 10 stream working: it is been shown on Ten 3.

 

[theegyptian]

Yes, it's 792 on sky if you've got it.

MCC have a tough schedule tomorrow. They'll have to play 3 back to back t20 matches if they make the final.

There will be some nervous counties worried about their players getting injured.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Durham spinners bowling rubbish.

 

[91Jmay]

Photogrammetry should actually be as or more accurate than the radar speeds you get these days, provided that the calibration is correct, so far as I understand.
FWIW the recorded speeds mentioned on a short documentary about the studies gave Dennis Lillee as bowling at 148.5 km/h in 1975 (that's after his back injury) while at the Perth test in 1975 Lillee was recorded at 139km/h, Holding 148.54 km/h, Roberts 150.67 km/h and Thomson 160.45 km/h. There's similar figures wandering around out there from other sources.

Why would Roberts, who was actually about the same height as Johnson (188 vs 189 cm) necessarily be slower? They both have quite slingy bowling actions but I'd say that Roberts is better balanced and moves his weight more effectively through the crease than Johnson.

Yeah I meant Malcolm Marshall, not Andy Roberts my bad.

Jeff Thompson I can believe but his action was so unique, and those numbers you have posted sort of prove my point. Andy Roberts topping out at 93 MPH rather than the ridiculous 99 MPH suggestions rather than S.Kennedy pretending they are bowling at the speed of light.

The West Indies team of the 80s being the fittest cricket team of all time is again such a delusional statement. It's like cricket hasn't changed since 1989.