Joe Root v Virat Kohli

[honestbharani]

Nah... Root is comfortably better than Virat in tests so far, I reckon. Of course, Kohli could catch up and surpass him but Root could just as easily leave him behind in his wake. But the performances from Kohli so far in tests, apart from England, and the improvement and maturity he has shown in his batting over the past 2 years, I would easily take him above Root if I were to pick one of the two for an all-formats team or squad.

 

[mackembhoy]

I must have missed the bit when Root became a bonafide ODI ATG, up there with Viv, AB & Sachin.

Anyway, I'll go Kohli since he has the better face of the two.

Well root got to 3000 odi runs faster than Sachin,AB and Kohli. So aye ATG is root.

Nothing to do with era in which they all played or anything

 

[mackembhoy]

It's not really close though. You're having a lend. Kohli's record, especially in chases, is ridiculous in ODIs. There's no comparison between them as ODI players. The gap between them in ODIs is larger than the gap in tests. It's as plain as the nose on your face. Look at how Kohli scores his runs and when he scores them in ODIs. It's actually an easier comparison to make than in tests.

I am grateful you started this thread though, as it provides context to your Miandad > Border heresy from the other week.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on these things, but I'm afraid in this instance your view on these players in relation to limited overs cricket is sadly bereft or any meaningful reality.

Well their records are practically identical at the same stage of their ODI careers. Root more runs, Kohli a slightly better average.

But thats where the comparison will end cos Root is never gonna emulate Kohli.

The man is on another planet to everyone apart from probably AB. De Kock could be the challenger to the crown in years to come mind.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Nah... Root is comfortably better than Virat in tests so far, I reckon. Of course, Kohli could catch up and surpass him but Root could just as easily leave him behind in his wake. But the performances from Kohli so far in tests, apart from England, and the improvement and maturity he has shown in his batting over the past 2 years, I would easily take him above Root if I were to pick one of the two for an all-formats team or squad.

Yeah but Kohli is a few years older so should have matured more now anyway. How good might Root or Williamson be when they reach 28?

 

[mackembhoy]

Root tends to get overrated in test cricket. 8 of his 11 tons have come in England. He has a ton in SA vs an attack that didn't have Steyn or Philander, has failed in Australia and New Zealand(Kohli has only failed in England and dominated in Aus/NZ). Away from their respective homes, both Kohli and Root have very similar averages with the difference being Kohli has 9 tons in 50 innings whereas Root has 3 tons in 40 innings.

Right now you'd probably have Root marginally ahead based on the strength of their overall averages in tests but you must factor that Kohli has played on some absolute rank turners, pitches where the likes of Amla and Abd struggled to put bat to ball. I expect Kohli's average to increase a couple of points and Root's to go down a couple of points once he goes outside England and then it'll be very debatable as to who the better test batsman is.

In ODIs it is a no contest. Kohli is the best ODI batsman after Viv, Tendulkar, Ponting.

So you're comparing roots innings as 22 year old opener.To Kohli batting 4 at 26.

Nice username. Should read absolute gob****e.

 

[Howe_zat]

Another to the Dhoni_fan, sehwag_fan, shivfan hall of fame

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah but Kohli is a few years older so should have matured more now anyway. How good might Root or Williamson be when they reach 28?

I meant Kohli is maturing as a test batsman, and as far as I am concerned, no matter their actual ages, KW and Root hit their batting puberties waaaay earlier than Kohli in test cricket and are even now, more mature test batsmen than Kohli, who is just now getting there. And I dont think they have too much to mature as ODI batsmen either. They are already really really good. Kohli has just been ridic in the LO formats though.

Its all coz of the beard, I am sure.

 

[listento_me]

It's not really close though. You're having a lend. Kohli's record, especially in chases, is ridiculous in ODIs. There's no comparison between them as ODI players. The gap between them in ODIs is larger than the gap in tests. It's as plain as the nose on your face. Look at how Kohli scores his runs and when he scores them in ODIs. It's actually an easier comparison to make than in tests.

I am grateful you started this thread though, as it provides context to your Miandad > Border heresy from the other week.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on these things, but I'm afraid in this instance your view on these players in relation to limited overs cricket is sadly bereft or any meaningful reality.

You would be one of the few who would rate Border over Miandad. When someone as good as Viv picks you to bat for his life, you know you're damn good.

Well their records are practically identical at the same stage of their ODI careers. Root more runs, Kohli a slightly better average.

But thats where the comparison will end cos Root is never gonna emulate Kohli.

The man is on another planet to everyone apart from probably AB. De Kock could be the challenger to the crown in years to come mind.

How can you say you don't think Root can emulate Kohlis ODI numbers? All of the evidence thus far shows he can.

Like I said already, it's a lot closer in ODIs in terms of skill set but lets not get bogged down by this whole "but but Kohli and ODIs yar"

Fact of the matter is that at 25, 3 years younger and at least 2-3 years shy of his physical prime as a batsman, Root has already become a better test batsman and is at the very least comparable elsewhere.

Yeah but Kohli is a few years older so should have matured more now anyway. How good might Root or Williamson be when they reach 28?

Root still has a ways to go before he reaches his prime. Kohli already has.

Another important point I initially made and no one bothered picking up is just how many runs Kohli has scored in losing or drawing efforts and how far his avg falls in tests when his team is winning. Especially in away tests. What is the point of a batsman making runs or a bowler taking wickets? To win their team a game.

Kohlis avg drops to 44 in tests won and a very mediocre 34 in away test wins. Why is Kohli scoring so many runs yet so few of them are important for India to win a test match? Only 39% of Kohlis test runs have com in victories, even though he has 22 test victories under his belt. That is startling to me.

 

[Burner]

Kohli has a better celebration when his bowlers pick up a wicket. That has to count for something.

 

[Rootfan]

No-one who watched that innings would under-rate it.

In Tests I'd put them in the same category as Smith and Williamson. All top players crucial to the success or failure of their team.

Not underrating it but Root is yet to come up trumps against a world class attack in difficult conditions away from home and a current SA attack without Steyn/Philander is not one.

 

[Rootfan]

So you're comparing roots innings as 22 year old opener.To Kohli batting 4 at 26.

Nice username. Should read absolute gob****e.

Please do not use insults. Keep the discussion civil.

The same baby 22 year old Root against the same team scored 180 a few months prior to his failures in Australia...and that was as n opener to boot. He hasn't had a prolific series like Kohli did in Aus anywhere away from home. Root has 3 tons away from home compared to 8 at home, Kohli has 9/14 away (in only 10 innings or so more away).

All said and done, I would still take Root as an overall test batsman but it's not by as big a margin as one would think. Root's stats are very similar to Pujara's in terms of overall average and home-away tons disparity (except that Pujara actually managed a ton vs Steyn/Philander in SA)and funnily enough virtually no one would contest that Kohli is better than Pujara.

 

[Bijed]

Not underrating it but Root is yet to come up trumps against a world class attack in difficult conditions away from home and a current SA attack without Steyn/Philander is not one.

I slightly feel that you're holding the fact that the SA attack didn't have Steyn\Philander against him a bit too much. It's not like he'd been failing against them all series and just cashed in when they weren't there. It's unfair to form a judgement on any player based on how they might have performed in a hypothetical situation.

Guess we'll probably find out next year, though.

 

[Burgey]

Comparing two blokes like this based on pure numbers shows the danger in doing so generally. Their numbers in tests pretty accurately reflect where they stand IMO based on watching them play, but their ODI numbers just don't. That makes it subjective, of course, but Kohli in ODIs is out of this world. Not just in terms of numbers but how he brings home chases etc. In tests, I would reckon Root is by far the player I'd bet my house on generally, in ODIs it would be Kohli.

Doesn't mean either is terrible in the other format though.

 

[Bijed]

Comparing two blokes like this based on pure numbers shows the danger in doing so generally. Their numbers in tests pretty accurately reflect where they stand IMO based on watching them play, but their ODI numbers just don't. That makes it subjective, of course, but Kohli in ODIs is out of this world. Not just in terms of numbers but how he brings home chases etc. In tests, I would reckon Root is by far the player I'd bet my house on generally, in ODIs it would be Kohli.

Doesn't mean either is terrible in the other format though.

Yeah, true. Amazing how often a comparison of two good/very good players results in people trying to make out that their less preferred of the two is actually bad, as opposed to just not as good, regardless of how close they actually are. I don't mean to be too critical though, as I do it when the mood takes me.

 

[Dan_M_Bali]

Roots conversion rate is a concern.

 

[91Jmay]

Yeah conversion rate is his issue. Sort that and he has a chance to be one of the GOATs.

 

[Bijed]

Yeah, if he had the conversion rate of Smith or Kohli, he could feasibly have 17 centuries right now, instead of the 11 he's got, and if 2 or 3 of the extra centuries were daddies, he'd have a scary good average.

Ifs and buts though...

 

[Red]

Actually think Kohli has done enough to get into my ATG ODI VII at this stage of his career.

Tendulkar
Gilchrist +
Richards *
Kohli
DeVilliers
Symonds
Kapil
Wasim
Garner
Murali
Donald

12- Ponting

 

[91Jmay]

Not sure need that much bowling. Probably go

Tendo
Gilchurch
Richards
Kohli
Flintoff
Dhoni
Symonds
Wasim
Garner
Murali
McGrath

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Cracking side Red Hill but could perhaps argue that more Aussies from their dominant multiple world cup winning sides should be in it.