The greatest batsman who averaged in the 40s

[Zinzan]

I think only Stephen Fleming has a worse tests-to-centurys ratio out of those considered to be potential ATG bats for their country

Ranatunga made Flem look like the conversion king, and he'd rank about the same as Fleming in terms of his countries top bats. Both would come in at about 8th or 9th for their respective countries.

I don't know anyone except maybe Fleming's biggest fan who would include him in the NZ all-time Test XI for example so unless you mean well outside the top 5, I don't know what you consider to be an ATG bat.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'd say it's someone who averaged 50+ for the majority of their career and then dipped under that mark right at the end.

Neil Harvey averaged 50+ over 13 years and 70 tests. In the first half of his career he averaged ~60 and was probably the best middle order player in the world

Jayawardene averaged 50 for 148 tests out of 149

By "averaged over 50" do you mean the cumulative average or average over a particular span? If it's former, VVS never averaged over 50. If it's the latter, he had a 13 year stretch after he stopped being forced to open where he averaged 51. But because of that initial period where he was batting out of position, his cumulative average suffered.

 

[Xuhaib]

Inzi averages 50+ playing for Pakistan. For players I have watched its either Crowe or Arvinda just flip a coin.

 

[OverratedSanity]

To mr_mister's point about his conversion rate, it's true. It was a big flaw in his game that he threw away many big tons. Apart from that, though I genuinely don't see what Mark Waugh has over him. Vvs was produced more runs more often over a longer period of time and played some of the best innings of the last couple of decades.

 

[mr_mister]

Ranatunga made Flem look like the conversion king, and he'd rank about the same as Fleming in terms of his countries top bats. Both would come in at about 8th or 9th for their respective countries.

I don't know anyone except maybe Fleming's biggest fan who would include him in the NZ all-time Test XI for example so unless you mean well outside the top 5, I don't know what you consider to be an ATG bat.

I guess I mean potentially make their team's ATG XI. Fair point regarding Ranatunga, and I agree he's probably around 8th/9th yeah for SL

But you don't think Fleming could sneak into the top 6 for NZ?

Apart from Crowe, KW and I guess Ross Taylor, who is definitely, 100% more deserving than him?

Dempster/Donnelly/Sutcliffe?


I don't see Flem's record of of 7000+ runs being broken by too many people in the next few years, Ross probably will and obviously KW will eventually, but still Flem will have held it for a while

 

[Howe_zat]

By "averaged over 50" do you mean the cumulative average or average over a particular span? If it's former, VVS never averaged over 50. If it's the latter, he had a 13 year stretch after he stopped being forced to open where he averaged 51. But because of that initial period where he was batting out of position, his cumulative average suffered.

Yeah you could make the point the other way around, just mine was easier to find

 

[Zinzan]

But you don't think Fleming could sneak into the top 6 for NZ?

Apart from Crowe, KW and I guess Ross Taylor, who is definitely, 100% more deserving than him?

Dempster/Donnelly/Sutcliffe?

Yeah, without going out of my way to try to squeeze batsman like Andrew Jones & John F Reid ahead of him, I'd say the following 7 would be considered ahead of Flem as Test bats without too much argument; so just with that lot he'd be 8th...

Crowe
KW
Dempster
Donnelly
Sutcliffe
Turner
Taylor

That said, it's the old Tendulkar argument again isn't it, whether one puts a huge weighting on longevity....I never have really hence why I rate the likes of Graeme Pollock right up there in terms of ATG bats.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Oh yes
Gower
Crowe
Abbas
Misbah

should be added to the list

 

[harsh.ag]

VVS batted at six for 50 odd tests, and India's tail during those years, though better than the 90s, was still rubbish. Not surprising the lack of tons as such. That comes through when you see how many more not outs and 50s he had compared to someone like Collingwood.

 

[Burgey]

Six of one, half of another Hough, if he got red ink in those digs.

Love VVS anyway, certainly belongs in this discussion.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Top 3:

Worrell

Ponsford

Sehwag

 

[Jono]

Six of one, half of another Hough, if he got red ink in those digs.

Yes that's true on the average discussion, but not on the century conversion discussion.

There's no doubt that VVS had concentration issues at times IMO. I remember he had a run of form around 2009-2012 where he would just notch up 50s but never kick on. You'd think he's India's #3 in almost any other era other than the Dravid one and probably have a better conversion rate though. But then we probably are denied some of his epic knocks to win matches, so it is swings and roundabouts.

 

[mr_mister]

What does the phrase burgey used even mean?

 

[Jono]

it means "old man uses iPhone"

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Ranji should be right in the discussion too

 

[harsh.ag]

Herbie Taylor

 

[Flametree]

Trying to pick a top 6 including qualifying batsmen only but trying to have a bowling option without just picking a lesser batsman for allround ability...

Australia : Ponsford, Simpson, Harvey, McCabe, Clarke, Walters

England : Boycott, Gooch, Ranjitsinhji, May Pietersen, FS Jackson

India : Merchant, Sehwag, Laxman, Azharuddin, Kohli, Hazare,

NZ : Turner, Richardson, Sutcliffe, Crowe, Taylor, Ryder
(I know, Ryder ahead of Fleming or Jones is silly, but I need another bowler, can't ruin Crowe's back by handing him 5th bowler duties...)

Pakistan : Hanif, Saeed Anwar, Saeed Ahmed, Zaheer Abbas, Inzamam, Misbah
(likewise, struggling to find a bowling option in there - all of Asif Iqbal, Mushtaq Mo, and Majid Khan averaged just below 40... so Saeed Ahmed gets in ahead of the likes of Salim Malik)

South Africa : Smith, EDIT - Mitchell!! (major forget), Barlow, Taylor, Bland, Faulkner

Sri Lanka : Jayasuriya, Jayawardene, de Silva, Chandimal, Mathews, Samaraweera

West Indies : Greenidge, Haynes, Kanhai, Worrell, Richardson, Lloyd


Overall... Merchant, Greenidge, Kanhai, Harvey, Crowe, Worrell

Like the middle-order. Not sure there's much in it between a lot of the openers (Sehwag, Boycott, Smith, Hanif, Saeed, Simpson, Ponsford - not to mention the Aussie openers not selected, Morris, Lawry, Warner... )

 

[Howe_zat]

Rather have Cook than Gooch

 

[harsh.ag]

Overall Top 7

Virender Sehwag
Bruce Mitchell
Rohan Kanhai
Neil Harvey
Martin Crowe
Frank Worrell
Adam Gilchrist +

 

[harsh.ag]

Combining the above 7 with bowlers who averaged between 25-30 for fast bowlers and in the 30s for spinners:

Andy Roberts
John Snow
Wes Hall
Erapalli Prasanna