Quotas to be introduced for Proteas

[Marius]

I agree with you here that government is not playing their part... but their is also an attitude problem amongst the businesses not playing a significant enough part. They think that government must just produce people for them to hire, but they need to make an active contribution by hiring and training staff who maybe did not have the privileges afforded everybody. A lot of business use window dressing as well rather than actively helping. And this goes hand in hand with culture and attitude change.

But Ramela has not been picked for SA... but he has been given every opportunity at SA 'A' level that maybe a white player would not get...

Don`t get me wrong I`m not saying this is totally fair or right, but it is far more nuanced than just "racial discrimination is wrong"... their is a whole political and social aspect to this as well, that people like to conveniently forget. But people tend to have these knee jerk reactions to the situation which does not help either. This whole story is that their is going to be direct targets, we don't know what those targets are yet and we don`t know how they will be implemented.

I don't know, I think it's difficult to say 'business is not doing its part'. Lots of businesses are doing as much as possible to help people in their companies who may come from disadvantaged backgrounds, and provide them with training etc. Also, lots of big companies have materially improved the incomes of black people through share schemes, look at Sasol Inzalo or the Multichoice BEE share scheme. And lots of companies do as much as they can through providing learnerships etc. For sure, there are lots of companies that don't do anything, but I think it's unfair to say 'business' is not doing its part, as if it's some unified entity.

I don't think encouraging transformation is 'racial discrimination' or wrong. What is wrong is saying 'only four of the starting XI of the Proteas can be white'. That said, as you point out, we don't know the full story. And journalism in SA is pretty dire so who knows whether we're actually getting anything reported accurately.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

Rabada will be played into the ground... sa cricket should just die, we earely even play anymore everyone is just waiting for a chance to playe england, india or australia everyone else is farked.

Just another failed state company.

 

[brockley]

IT will be a fascinating view of the science behind the team.
The A team is full of coloured players all 5 bowlers some Proteas are all coloured,maybe what the attack will look like in action.
Faff,Devilliers,Steyn and Morkel I don't see hanging around.

 

[Shady Slim]

Cook
Elgar
Amla
ABDV
Faf
Bavuma
QdK
Philander
Steyn
Rabada
Piedt

that gives you five, you'd expect that big vern will come in for morkel for sure now

bavuma moving in to 5 and faf out for duminy will give you 6

 

[91Jmay]

That's basically the first choice team anyway. Injuries seem to be the potential issue

 

[Shady Slim]

could argue that duminy could come in for piedt in conditions not conducive to spin, or morris in for faf as well - morris in for piedt wouldn't be an option anymore

 

[91Jmay]

In the England series I thought Piedt looked the first South African spinner who could attack on day 1 I've ever seen. Would be one of the first name on the teamsheet for me.

 

[Shady Slim]

good point

the problem with the quotas that hasn't been touched on so far afaik is depth players - you'd assume that guys like hardus viljoen can kiss a career goodbye in the long format now because the safrican decided laws retrospective to his ancestors are the most just laws

 

[StephenZA]

Don't rate Viljoen anyway, he has pace but you need more than that at top level. As stated depth is the problem with the quotas more than anything. Ironically Piedt position as front line spinner is not a depth problem with Shamsi starting to really look good. It is the batting thats the issue. And unfortunately there is a distinction made between 'black' and 'coloured' (mixed race) players, that becomes a real issue if Bavuma and/or Rabada are injured.

 

[Niall]

Looking at the A team and the non white for most part are pretty average like Zondo.

Once that level of player has to be picked due to quota, bye bye Saffers as a cricketing force.

 

[Furball]

They're done as a cricketing force because politics has dictated that they won't always be able to select their strongest side. It would be politically unacceptable for a hypothetical 2025 Proteas team to be all white regardless of actual talent.

Constant focus on quotas taints the non-whites in the side as well. People like Amla and Rabada get talked about as part of filling a quota of 4 or 5 players when actually they'd be getting picked anyway. But you don't automatically think of them as being part of the best XI, you mentally stick them in the group of 4 or 5 or however many non white players the team needs first.

 

[91Jmay]

An all white South African side in 2025 would be disgusting. People pretending the best talent just appears as a vacuum are so delusional. Reason most of team has been white is the elite private schools and their economic privilege allowing them the best facilities. That is just an unofficial quota system.

 

[Marius]

An all white South African side in 2025 would be disgusting. People pretending the best talent just appears as a vacuum are so delusional. Reason most of team has been white is the elite private schools and their economic privilege allowing them the best facilities. That is just an unofficial quota system.

How many current England players are from state schools?

The lank of black players is obviously also a legacy of apartheid and of economic exclusion, but cricket, in general, has always drawn its players from a handful of schools in South Africa. My old school, which by any standard is an excellent one, has produced precisely one Test cricketer. Why? Because sport was not a primary focus, in contrast to the emphasis put on it at other schools (many of which are not private, KES, Pretoria Boys High, Rondebosch and Wynberg in Cape Town).

Cricket is by its nature an extremely technical game. To be successful, one needs to receive pretty decent coaching from a young age (especially if you're a batsman). Even if one looks at Temba Bavuma and Kagiso Rabada both are firmly middle class and went to private 'elite' schools, where they received good coaching and came from families that could afford to pay for cricket equipment etc. Not sure if this means they are beneficiaries of this unofficial quota system.

And this is a phenomenon around the world - apparently out of England's 31-man squad for last year's rugby world cup, only ten came from state schools, while the rest were privately educated. Apart from sports such as football and athletics I am sure that the majority of the world's elite sportsmen come from relatively well-off backgrounds and/or attended schools where sport had a special focus.

 

[91Jmay]

How many current England players are from state schools?

Moeen, Stokes, Hales, Woakes and Anderson

Root/Cook when to private schools because of scholarships for sport/singing respectively.

I agree it is still a problem for England, and they need to do a better job at removing the elitism around cricket though.

 

[Daemon]

I'm not sure about 'majority' for cricket at least. Have a look at the cricketers from the subcontinent.

 

[Marius]

I'm not sure about 'majority'. Have a look at the cricketers from the subcontinent.

Yeah, I meant to add that in as I was posting my reply.

Would be interesting to see what kinds of backgrounds Indian Test cricketers have. I am very open to correction but I believe very few Dalits make it as pro cricketers, for example.

 

[91Jmay]

Should add that Rashid/Ball out of the rest of the squad are also state school educated.

The point about rugby is true because rugby has always been a game for the upper class only. Cricket always had big pockets of working class people playing, which it hasn't done enough to promote/facilitate.

 

[Marius]

Moeen, Stokes, Hales, Woakes and Anderson

Root/Cook when to private schools because of scholarships for sport/singing respectively.

I agree it is still a problem for England, and they need to do a better job at removing the elitism around cricket though.

According to this article nearly 40% of recreational cricketers in the UK are non-white while only 6% of professional cricketers in England are non-white.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/13/england-cricket-problem-non-white-asian

Would be interesting to see similar stats for SA.

I think what we can say with some certainty is that people who aren't white still struggle to get to the top of the system in England and South Africa.

 

[StephenZA]

Elitism and provincialism is a problem in many different countries... that does not mean that it is right and it should be discouraged.

And SA has the additional social and economic issues that must be overcome; that will drive this dynamic. White players are not being pushed out, they are just not at the front of the queue. If you look at the SA 'A' and youth/developing teams it is obvious they are picking a large number of potentials who would be considered quotas, but along with this is still the most talented of the white players. The biggest players SA will lose are those looking for better prospects else where in the world because of other SA issues. And the 2nd tier players that have not shown great potential at this stage (not that they could not be great) and are right at the back.

 

[Marius]

Should add that Rashid/Ball out of the rest of the squad are also state school educated.

The point about rugby is true because rugby has always been a game for the upper class only. Cricket always had big pockets of working class people playing, which it hasn't done enough to promote/facilitate.

Just as with the South African players that attended state schools (Cook, De Villiers, Du Plessis, De Kock, Amla for example) these state schools probably have pretty good sporting facilities. None of them would have come from a school where there aren't cricket facilities and at least some formal coaching - I would imagine it is fairly similar with the English guys who have come from state schools.