McGrath flexed 12 degrees myth

[Migara]

To the naked eye, McGrath's action looked classical and pure and no one questioned it. Amazingly, the Tests proved that McGrath bowled with an elbow extension of close to 10 degrees. What the scientists and bio-mechanists were saying was, if you can see there is an irregularity, then the bowler probably has an illegal action.

ICC on right course by attacking chucking problem by degrees

Myth busted once more. **** happens, deal with it.

 

[TNT]

Myth already busted. McGrath chucked under the classical law. **** happens, deal with it.

Prove it will evidence, I have evidence that there is no test that can be used in match conditions to prove someone chucks. It looks like you can only lie about it.

 

[Migara]

Prove it will evidence, I have evidence that there is no test that can be used in match conditions to prove someone chucks. It looks like you can only lie about it.

So who said this was done in match conditions? Please, no straw men.

 

[TNT]

So who said this was done in match conditions? Please, no straw men.

Just provide evidence of McGrath being tested, how he was 4ested ,who did the testing and what the results for McGrath were. If you are going to claim that McGrath bowled with a 10 degree flex then prove it, is that too much to ask. I was kind enough to provide you with ICC,s report that there is no valid test available for match situations and McGrath was never tested in the lab. Jones, Pringle and murali claimed that McGrath bowled with 10-12 flex but none of them can actually back up the claim with evidence because they were all just repeating gossip they heard.

 

[TNT]

Where has everyone gone, why don't they put up how McGrath was tested, who did the testing and what the results were. Why are these questions not being answered?.

 

[Athlai]

I'm at work and only here to make dick jokes but here you go you smarmy git.

McGrath himself:

"McGrath also endorsed the ICC proposal after initial reservations. "When I found out that the testing could be done in match situations with high-speed cameras, and a few of us had already been tested, I started thinking it was a good idea," he said. "It already shows that people like myself and Shaun Pollock who people say have pretty sound actions, that we have a bit of a flex of 10-12 degrees."

Murali denies slur as Aussies fire up - Cricket - www.smh.com.au

The limit at the time for fast bowlers was 10 degrees, which was a completely arbitrary limit made up by no one. The argument here isn't that they were doing anything wrong, it's that the guideline was actually just wrong.

 

[NZTailender]

I'm at work and only here to make dick jokes but here you go you smarmy git.

McGrath himself:

"McGrath also endorsed the ICC proposal after initial reservations. "When I found out that the testing could be done in match situations with high-speed cameras, and a few of us had already been tested, I started thinking it was a good idea," he said. "It already shows that people like myself and Shaun Pollock who people say have pretty sound actions, that we have a bit of a flex of 10-12 degrees."

Murali denies slur as Aussies fire up - Cricket - www.smh.com.au

The limit at the time for fast bowlers was 10 degrees, which was a completely arbitrary limit made up by no one. The argument here isn't that they were doing anything wrong, it's that the guideline was actually just wrong.

Further:

Subsequent to this the ICC received data from laboratory based analyses, on the basis that these measurement environments are more controlled, involving more sophisticated measurement technologies such as the Vicon Motion Analysis system. These were subject to less measurement error. Data was provided by the Australian Institute of Sport, the University of Western Australia and the Motion Analysis Corporation system from the University of Auckland. The ICC also carried out further video based three-dimensional analyses on all bowlers during the 2004 Champions Trophy in England. Regardless of the biomechanical measurement protocol used, a strikingly similar pattern emerged: the normal biomechanics of cricket bowling, whether it be spin or pace, features an element of elbow extension. The average extension of a normal, seemingly legal delivery was 8-10 degrees for all bowler types. There were virtually zero instances of no elbow extension at all in accordance with the original laws.

The ICC formed an expert panel comprising biomechanists Professor Bruce Elliott of The University of Western Australia, Dr Marc Portus of the Australian Institute of Sport and Dr Paul Hurrion from the UK who presented during a forum of a special ICC cricket sub-committee for illegal bowling actions in late 2003 in Dubai. The sub-committee was David Richardson, Angus Fraser, Aravinda De Silva, Michael Holding, Tony Lewis and Tim May. After this meeting the ICC decided to raise the elbow extension tolerance threshold to 15 degrees for all bowlers. This limit was chosen after considering biomechanical findings from 130 pace and spin bowlers, the scientific issues with measurement, and that bowling actions considered to be "throw-like", or illegal, were usually measured to be well above 15 degrees of elbow extension, often in the 20 to 30 degree range.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throwing_(cricket)#Biomechanics_and_modifications_to_the_throwing_laws

New ICC illegal deliveries process announced | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Further (dry) readings:

http://www98.griffith.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/handle/10072/48687/81936_1.pdf?sequence=1

https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/view/6055/5535

 

[TNT]

I'm at work and only here to make dick jokes but here you go you smarmy git.

McGrath himself:

"McGrath also endorsed the ICC proposal after initial reservations. "When I found out that the testing could be done in match situations with high-speed cameras, and a few of us had already been tested, I started thinking it was a good idea," he said. "It already shows that people like myself and Shaun Pollock who people say have pretty sound actions, that we have a bit of a flex of 10-12 degrees."

Murali denies slur as Aussies fire up - Cricket - www.smh.com.au

The limit at the time for fast bowlers was 10 degrees, which was a completely arbitrary limit made up by no one. The argument here isn't that they were doing anything wrong, it's that the guideline was actually just wrong.

Of course McGrath wasn't going to get into a media storm about the testing, but the testing is not valid, was not valid and cannot produce any accurate results. If the testing was valid then they would be testing players in match situations now, there is a reason they don't do testing in match situations and its because it is not accurate you stupid little man.

 

[Athlai]

 

[Athlai]

Of course McGrath wasn't going to get into a media storm about the testing, but the testing is not valid, was not valid and cannot produce any accurate results. If the testing was valid then they would be testing players in match situations now, there is a reason they don't do testing in match situations and its because it is not accurate you stupid little man.

So you're saying the statement Murali made in 2004 was outlandish because of a change in testing in the last year or two has proven it to be wrong, but that McGrath just didn't know better because it was 2004 and this was before the change in testing?

The argument was no one/"ICC or anyone" had tested it. In the above quote McGrath himself says he was at 10-12 in some tests in live game environments.

Was this by the current standard they're using to eliminate chuckers? No. Did anyone say it was? No. Are you a prickly pear? Yes.

 

[TNT]

So you're saying the statement Murali made in 2004 was outlandish because of a change in testing in the last year or two has proven it to be wrong, but that McGrath just didn't know better because it was 2004 and this was before the change in testing?

The argument was no one/"ICC or anyone" had tested it. In the above quote McGrath himself says he was at 10-12 in some tests in live game environments.

Was this by the current standard they're using to eliminate chuckers? No. Did anyone say it was? No. Are you a prickly pear? Yes.

I don't care what Murali said, he made the statement that McGrath was tested at 12 degrees, Tim May:

The sub-committee was David Richardson, Angus Fraser, Aravinda De Silva, Michael Holding, Tony Lewis and Tim May. After this meeting the ICC decided to raise the elbow extension tolerance threshold to 15 degrees for all bowlers. This limit was chosen after considering biomechanical findings from 130 pace and spin bowlers, the scientific issues with measurement, and that bowling actions considered to be "throw-like", or illegal, were usually measured to be well above 15 degrees of elbow extension, often in the 20 to 30 degree range.[9]

who was on the sub committee questioned where he got that figure, nobody knows and nobody can say what McGraths flexation was, some say it was 8-10, some say it was 10 and some say it was 12. Nobody has the results and nobody can give any indication what his results were. On top of that the ICC still don't have any valid method of testing in match conditions which is supposedly how McGrath was tested. So apparently in 2004 you could test players in match conditions but in 2015 you cant.

 

[Athlai]

Did you read what I sent you? McGrath refers to this same secret now defunct testing process that puts him at 10-12.

#Glennspiracy

 

[NZTailender]

Did you read what I sent you? McGrath refers to this same secret now defunct testing process that puts him at 10-12.

#Glennspiracy

Clearly McGrath's in on it.

 

[TNT]

Clearly McGrath's in on it.

McGrath did disagree with it but realised it was best to just go along with it and not get involved in the controversy, but you still have not come up with the results of McGraths testing, was it 8-10 or was it 12 or was it just a random number plucked out of thin air. And what was the process, two 3D cameras is what you can use to measure if someone is throwing, is that your claim. By the way who carried out this testing, was it Joe the cameraman.

 

[NZTailender]

McGrath did disagree with it but realised it was best to just go along with it and not get involved in the controversy, but you still have not come up with the results of McGraths testing, was it 8-10 or was it 12 or was it just a random number plucked out of thin air. And what was the process, two 3D cameras is what you can use to measure if someone is throwing, is that your claim. By the way who carried out this testing, was it Joe the cameraman.

It was all of those things. Do you think a bowler's arm bends the same degree every single delivery? The video analysis, that was consistent with lab tests, found that all fast bowlers flexed their arms, in various degrees. No one's saying 'oh em gee McGrath's a chucker'; the point is McGrath was not immune to arm bending in his bowling action, and is used as an example because people thought he had a classical action that involved no movement. Every fast bowler arm bends in delivery to varying degrees: 8, 9, 10, 11, 12; whatever! It was thought that legal bowlers' arms didn't bend at all and only those who chucked did. Then they came up with arbitrary numbers to define what was illegal, then they actually did lab testing and video analysis and found everyone flexed and bent their arm to some extent, and came up with the revised figure and way of testing. From the anecdotal account from McGrath, who spoke to those doing the analysis, he was found to flex up to as much as 12 degrees.

jfc.

 

[harsh.ag]

McGrath did disagree with it but realised it was best to just go along with it and not get involved in the controversy, but you still have not come up with the results of McGraths testing, was it 8-10 or was it 12 or was it just a random number plucked out of thin air. And what was the process, two 3D cameras is what you can use to measure if someone is throwing, is that your claim. By the way who carried out this testing, was it Joe the cameraman.

How do you know? Do you have any proof? You have not shown one piece of interview or autobiography/biography line in support of this. By the way, who carried out this interview, was it TNT the "journalist"?

 

[fredfertang]

Perhaps someone who has read McGrath's autobiography can tell us what the man himself said about this?

 

[Pratters]

Straightening shouldn't be confused with traditional chucking.

 

[Migara]

Unproven theories should't be confused as knowledge.

 

[Pratters]

Heh.