I'm not sure you can have it both ways on this. It's fine if people want to claim both Tendulkar & Lara were generally more dominant batsmen than Kallis; batsmen more likely to take the game away from the opposition. I wouldn't argue that for a second. But one can't then also try to claim they provided the same level of 'stability' as Kallis. For me there's a reason Kallis averaged 3-4 runs more than the other two, and it's because as a function of his more conservative approach, he provided a little more 'stability' and consistency.
Agree with this, I'd personally go with Lara and Tendulkar ahead of Kallis off the top of my head as a specialist no.4, but to suggest people would be 'insane' if they chose Kallis instead is ridiculously over the top.
Nah, you're going to have to give me a better reason than 'he averaged higher'. Tendulkar averaged 57 after 180 test matches, which itself is quite a bit longer than kallis' entire career. Lara hardly got any chances to pump up his average against minnows like Sachin, Kallis, Sanga did. Otherwise he'd average 54-55 as well. Tendulkar's entire game was built on a supreme defense, and Lara was solid as well. I hardly think guys like Kallis or Dravid were 'more stable' than Sachin and Lara. They just used their defensive game more, because their approach was different. Just because we saw them defend more doesn't mean they were necessarily had better defences.
Yeah, that's fine by me. I personally feel that the value of the number of deliveries consumed plateaus out after a certain number, after which runs matter a lot more. Your definition just comes back to the point I made about Kallis and Dravid using their defense more. But that's a fairly valid reason, I agree.My definition of stability, if the defensive technique is equally good (as is in the case of Kallis and Sachin as OS points out), is basically along the lines of "eating up more balls before getting out" on average
See I definitely do & I can only talk from a NZ fan's perspective of when India (and SA) toured NZ in the 2000s. Dravid was the one I always wanted to see the back of, and yes, before Tendulkar, because while he may not have plundered the attack, you wondered how you were ever going to get the guy out. I had a similar feeling with Kallis when he toured here in '04. It could very well have something to do with NZ conditions, but both Kallis and Dravid looked so much more solid and almost impenetrable when they toured here in the 2000s, whereas you always felt Sachin and Lara weren't far away from being dismissed on our tracks.
Dravid and Sachin were both equally difficult to get out, it was incredibly difficult to find a chink in Sachin's technique. The way Sachin adapted to the bowler's strength right in the middle demoralized many. How do you bowl to someone who's constantly following you and dictating the terms? Dravid's more like a tight poker player, just all gates closed, you know what he's gonna do and it's not easy to get him out in the open.
That's not the impression I got as a NZ fan playing India over the years. Australian/English may have had an entirely different impression when they toured there.
Having followed and worshipped the two over the last two decades that's pretty much my take on them. Sachin's adaptation is one of his biggest strengths, and usually not talked about much. Great technique, yes, but he relied a lot more on his reading of the bowler than just playing by the book, and made loads of subtle changes during the innings which wouldn't be noticed unless he told you, and that changed teh entire scenario.
Well he didn't seem to adapt to either NZ or English conditions quite as well as Dravid did. Just checked their respective records touring England, and whilst Tendulkar's average is an impressive 54, Dravid's is 68.
I don't go much with the stats, what I've told is how they played the game, how much of it is seen in the result depends on a lot more than their own approach themselves. But like I said, Sachin's mind was constantly at work during every minute he was on the pitch, which as a bowler would be a pain in the ass, impossible to settle into a rhythm against him and this is all without considering that he would punish you severely if you strayed slightly from your plan. Dravid goes into the hole, you can't get him out no matter what, but you can keep on trying, and using the plan hoping it will strike sometime. Having to change your plan after every few deliveries is a nightmare. And that's what your Lara's, Sachin's and all do to you.
Tbf, you can't quite put Sachin in Lara's league when it comes to completing taking test attacks apart.
If only Sachin had the luxury to face the Indian attack in tests!
His innings against Australia, greatest I've seen.
Bro if you think Kallis deserves to be ahead of Tendulkar as the number 4, then post your team and put him there.
Point taken
