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Thread: Scathing article by Vaughan on Trott

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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Scathing article by Vaughan on Trott

    Jonathan Trott must accept team-mates and opponents will feel he did a runner - Telegraph

    What is this interview he refers to where Trott used the word "nutcase"?
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    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Jonathan Trott must accept team-mates and opponents will feel he did a runner - Telegraph

    What is this interview he refers to where Trott used the word "nutcase"?
    Jonathan Trott: I wasn't suffering from depression, I was just burnt out - Telegraph

    Gave an interview to SKY

    Trott shouldn't be anywhere near the English team for an extended period as he is either in complete denial as to his mental condition or he simply did a runner when the going got tough

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    It will be difficult for any England captain to trust Jonathan Trott again - Telegraph

    Even Pringle, who is pro virtually everybody bar KP, is saying the same thing

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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social View Post
    Jonathan Trott: I wasn't suffering from depression, I was just burnt out - Telegraph

    Gave an interview to SKY

    Trott shouldn't be anywhere near the English team for an extended period as he is either in complete denial as to his mental condition or he simply did a runner when the going got tough
    Jeez that's not great from Trotty.

    For the record, this is why longevity is so important and should be valued so highly. Players like Tendulkar, Kallis, Ponting, Dravid who just kept going series after series playing at the highest level against the best bowlers for 15-20 years are ****ing titans of the game. Same with bowlers like McGrath, Murali, Warne who did it from the bowling front for so many years too. There are obviously other players too who you can put in this category.

    The ability to front up and fight through ****ty form, heavy media scrutiny and serious sledging on the field and get through it year after year is just so underrated on here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by social View Post
    Jonathan Trott: I wasn't suffering from depression, I was just burnt out - Telegraph

    Gave an interview to SKY

    Trott shouldn't be anywhere near the English team for an extended period as he is either in complete denial as to his mental condition or he simply did a runner when the going got tough
    Ill-advised would be an understatement in terms of that interview. That's done himself, and future cricketers/sportsmen with real depression symptoms, a massive disservice. This only gives the 'harden up' crowd a stronger voice.

    Not to mention he's given the impression of talking about a return to England like it's a given right. Technically he was all over the show and if not for leaving, he would have been dropped. Fair to say no one has put their hand up since but #3 for England is not his god-given right.
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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNZ View Post
    Ill-advised would be an understatement in terms of that interview. That's done himself, and future cricketers/sportsmen with real depression symptoms, a massive disservice. This only gives the 'harden up' crowd a stronger voice.
    I agree. Comments on both The Telegraph and Sydney Morning Herald where this article was posted suggest this is correct. A lot of "harden up" being said.

    The next time we have a Trescothick scenario for a current player this will be the first thing people say.

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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Jeez that's not great from Trotty.

    For the record, this is why longevity is so important and should be valued so highly. Players like Tendulkar, Kallis, Ponting, Dravid who just kept going series after series playing at the highest level against the best bowlers for 15-20 years are ****ing titans of the game. Same with bowlers like McGrath, Murali, Warne who did it from the bowling front for so many years too. There are obviously other players too who you can put in this category.

    The ability to front up and fight through ****ty form, heavy media scrutiny and serious sledging on the field and get through it year after year is just so underrated on here.
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    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Is there a discernable difference between Depression and "burnout"? I don't think that there is - 'Same dog different leg' as they say.

    Jonathan Trott: I wasn't suffering from depression, I was just burnt out - Telegraph

    Chappell opted out of the 1981 Ashes tour because of "burnout". He cited 'family and business reasons' at the time, but really, it was obvious to all after the 'Underarm Incident' that he had more than a gut-full of International cricket.

    The point being, not every cricketer can be like Tendulkar, Kallis, or Dravid. Neither should they be, as this would make the sport predictably monochrome. Trott should have the support of his team mates like Chappell, and be able to make a come back in his own good time like Chappell. That way, the England team will benefit in the longer term just like the Australian team did. Chappell's leadership in the 1982/83 Ashes series was inspired, and his batting excellent (Ave = 48.63) considering the lay-off. His last 5 Tests against Pakistan in 1983/84 yielded 364 runs at 72.80.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNZ View Post
    Ill-advised would be an understatement in terms of that interview. That's done himself, and future cricketers/sportsmen with real depression symptoms, a massive disservice. This only gives the 'harden up' crowd a stronger voice.

    Not to mention he's given the impression of talking about a return to England like it's a given right. Technically he was all over the show and if not for leaving, he would have been dropped. Fair to say no one has put their hand up since but #3 for England is not his god-given right.
    AWTA. Who ever is on his management team and sent him into the interview with those lines of explanation need sacking immediately. Disgraceful rhetoric..........and I'm with Vaughan, we've all been conned. .
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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Is there a discernable difference between Depression and "burnout"? I don't think that there is - 'Same dog different leg' as they say.

    Jonathan Trott: I wasn't suffering from depression, I was just burnt out - Telegraph

    Chappell opted out of the 1981 Ashes tour because of "burnout". He cited 'family and business reasons' at the time, but really, it was obvious to all after the 'Underarm Incident' that he had more than a gut-full of International cricket.

    The point being, not every cricketer can be like Tendulkar, Kallis, or Dravid. Neither should they be, as this would make the sport predictably monochrome. Trott should have the support of his team mates like Chappell, and be able to make a come back in his own good time like Chappell. That way, the England team will benefit in the longer term just like the Australian team did. Chappell's leadership in the 1982/83 Ashes series was inspired, and his batting excellent (Ave = 48.63) considering the lay-off. His last 5 Tests against Pakistan in 1983/84 yielded 364 runs at 72.80.
    There is absolutely a massive, massive difference between being mentally tired and depression. I'm sure they've been confused a lot throughout history but there's a massive difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Is there a discernable difference between Depression and "burnout"? I don't think that there is - 'Same dog different leg' as they say.
    Yes. I'm not an expert, and nor are you, but my best explanation/theory would be that burnout is situational, and depression is not.

    I'm not prepared to say Trott shouldn't have the support of his team-mates - if he can look them in the eye and truly say he left the tour feeling mentally overwhelmed. He doesn't have to put a label on where his head was or anything else...it should be enough to say guys, I couldn't go on.

    As we stand here today, he probably needs to say I made some flippant remarks that were ill-advised, I intend to work hard to regain my England spot, feel I am in a better mental state to do so and will commit to proving it for Warwickshire.
    Last edited by SteveNZ; 16-03-2014 at 08:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNZ View Post
    Yes. I'm not an expert, and nor are you, but my best explanation/theory would be that burnout is situational, and depression is not.
    Depression can definitely be triggered or worsened by situational aspects. It's hard to quantify exactly but having experienced both first hand, I think the best I can do is say that depression is a mental illness and burnout is a state of mind. I suppose you're right to an extent about depression not being situational in that a depression suffer always 'has' the illness even if it's being managed well enough to not be having an effect at times, whereas burnout legitimately just comes and goes away with rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    There is absolutely a massive, massive difference between being mentally tired and depression. I'm sure they've been confused a lot throughout history but there's a massive difference.
    However, one will greatly exacerbate the other. The first steps when dealing with mental illness are the basics. Sleep well, do the things you love/enjoy, drink water, exercise. Tiredness, poor diet, stress and pressure and being sedentary increase the severity of depression.

    I'm in no place to say, but perhaps Trott doesn't want to admit to the world what's actually going on, or maybe he's trying to retract something that's true, but he wishes that he hadn't said. Who knows? It's all speculation. One thing I do know is that we don't need everyone piping in with their opinion (Vaughan has become a really unlikeable sniper in the media). I wish Trott all the best with whatever he is dealing with.
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    And, even if it is "burnout", why does it change anything. As a society, what is the big deal with Jonathon Trott needing a sabbatical from his work?

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    You guys are basically talking about the difference between acute depression and chronic depression. People in general 'get' the former way more than the latter. i.e. "Oh they were in a car accident? Damn, poor bastard" vs "Oh he's been depressed for four years? HTFU!"
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