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Thread: Bradman's record on sticky wickets?

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    State Vice-Captain karan316's Avatar
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    Bradman's record on sticky wickets?

    Read in one of the articles that Bradman scored just 284 runs in 15 innings he played on sticky wickets, is this true? If not, what were the exact numbers, and are there any detailed stats on how many overs of "fully-fit" Larwood that Bradman played.

    Again, I'll be clear with my point, I don't rate Bradman ahead of the batsmen from the next eras, nor do I like it when others are compared with him. Cross era comparisons are usually senseless. With the help of this thread, I just want to know more about his record in difficult conditions.
    Last edited by karan316; 28-02-2014 at 01:37 PM.
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    International Debutant Viscount Tom's Avatar
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    What is this other aticle.
    AT-XI
    #J.Hobbs; #L.Hutton; #D.Bradman; #V.Richards; #G.Sobers; #A.Border; #A.Gilchrist; #K.Miller; #I.Khan; #S.Warne; #M.Marshall;

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    State Vice-Captain karan316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    Also, is there a complete explanation of how much of "fully fit" Larwood did Bradman face?


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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karan316 View Post
    Also, is there a complete explanation of how much of "fully fit" Larwood did Bradman face?
    He was fully fit in 28/29, and in 32/33 was in his own opinion fitter than he had ever been, till he broke a bone in his foot in the fifth Test which was the end of him as an express bowler. In 1930 he played in three Tests and achieved very little - he missed the second Test with stomach problems and was dropped for the fourth. The gastritis apart he was fit, but suffered with dental problems all summer, and I know from personal experience how debilitating that can be, so I like to think that affected him. But the figures say Bradman had his measure in 1930, and even in the last Test when he gave Bradman a hard time (and the seed of Bodyline was, on some accounts, sown) Bradman still scored plenty from him

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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karan316 View Post
    Read in one of the articles that Bradman scored just 284 runs in 15 innings he played on sticky wickets, is this true? If not, what were the exact numbers, and are there any detailed stats on how many overs of "fully-fit" Larwood that Bradman played.

    Again, I'll be clear with my point, I don't rate Bradman ahead of the batsmen from the next eras, nor do I like it when others are compared with him. Cross era comparisons are usually senseless. With the help of this thread, I just want to know more about his record in difficult conditions.
    If you don't rate Bradman ahead of people from future eras then I assume that you also think that no player from that era would even be good enough for current first class cricket?
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    State Vice-Captain Coronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    If you don't rate Bradman ahead of people from future eras then I assume that you also think that no player from that era would even be good enough for current first class cricket?
    I assume he's more saying that cross era comparisons in general are useless. Not that the skill level of test players from that era is that inferior to those now.
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    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. A.C Gilchrist 7. Imran Khan 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

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    State Vice-Captain karan316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    I assume he's more saying that cross era comparisons in general are useless. Not that the skill level of test players from that era is that inferior to those now.
    exactly
    Last edited by karan316; 01-03-2014 at 08:05 AM.

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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    If you don't rate Bradman ahead of people from future eras then I assume that you also think that no player from that era would even be good enough for current first class cricket?
    His use of the word "rate" was a little misleading. Just meant he doesn't compare.
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    International Debutant Viscount Tom's Avatar
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    It;d be interesting to get a comparison of Bradman's record on stickies to other top batsman of the period.

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    International Captain OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    Yeah, especially compared to Hobbs, who I think was regarded as a master on stickies

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    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    I believe that Hobbs, Hutton and Headley were regarded to be master of the sticky wickets.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

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    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    The famous writer CLR James perhaps thought that Headley was superior to Bradman on 'wet or uncertain wickets' as he put it. James probably saw Headley through rose-tinted-glasses, but his argument laid out below isn't a bad one;

    Headley: Nascitur Non Fit

    By CLR James

    .....What I want to draw special attention to here is George’s play on wet or uncertain wickets. Here are his scores on such wickets in England;

    1933
    V Northhamptonshire: 52 out of 129 (Other high scores: 32 and 15)
    V Yorkshire: 25 out of 115 (Other high scores: 25 and 16)
    V Nottinghamshire: 66 out of 314 (Other high scores: 54 and 51)
    V Lancashire: 66 out of 174 (Other high scores: 29 and 18)
    V Leistershire: 60 out of 156 (Other high scores: 22 and 19)
    V Leveson-Gower’s XI: 35 out of 251 (Other high scores: 70 and 44)

    1939
    V Surrey: 52 out of 224 (Other high scores: 58 and 52)
    V Yorkshire: 61 out of 234 (Other high scores: 72 and 28)
    V England: 51 out of 133 & 5 out of 4/43 (Other high scores: 47 and 16 & 13 and 11)
    V Somerset: 0 out of 84 (Other high scores: 45 and 17)
    V Gloustershire: 40 out of 220 & 5 out of 162 (Other high scores: 50 and 28 & 43 and 26)


    In those 13 innings George passed 50 seven times. Three times only he scored less than double figures, and in his other three innings his scores of were 25, 35 and 40. I believe those figures would be hard to beat. Look at a similar list made for Bradman by Ray Robinson in his fascinating book 'Between Wickets';

    1928
    Brisbane Test: 1 out of 66 (Top scorer: Woodfull 30 n.o)

    1929
    Sydney: 15 out of 128 (Top scorer: Fairfax 40)

    1930
    Notts Test: 8 out of 144 (Top scorer: Kippax 64 n.o)
    Northants: 22 out of 93 (Top scorer: Bradman 22)
    Glouster: 42 out of 157 (Top scorer: Ponsford 51)

    1932
    Perth: 3 out of 159 (Top scorer: McCabe 43)
    Melbourne: 13 out of 19/2

    1933
    Sydney: 1 out of 180 (Top scorer: Rowe 70)

    1934
    Lords Test: 13 out of 118 (Top scorer: Woodfull 43)

    1936
    Brisbane Test: 0 out of 58 (Top scorer: Chipperfield 36)
    Sydney Test: 0 out of 80 (Top scorer: O’Reilly 37 n.o)

    1938
    Middlesex: 5 out of 132 (Top scorer: Chipperfield 36)
    Yorkshire: 42 out of 132 (Top scorer: Bradman 42)


    In fifteen innings Bradman passed 50 only once, 40 only twice, and 15 only four times. His average is 16.66. George’s average is 39.85. You need not build on these figures a monument, but you cannot ignore them.

    Bradman’s curious deficiency on wet wickets has been the subject of much searching comment. George’s superior record has been noticed before, and one critic, I think it was Neville Cardus, has stated that Headley has good claims to be considered an all wickets the finest of the inter-war batsman. I would not go that far. It is easy to give figures and make comparisons and draw rational conclusions. The fact remains that the odds were 10 to 1 that in any Test Bradman would make 150 or 200 runs, and the more runs were needed the more certain he was to make them. Yet if Bradman never failed in a Test series, neither did George. I believe Bradman and Headley are the only two between the wars of whom that can be said. Hammond failed terribly in 1930 in England and almost as badly in the West Indies in 1934-35.

    But there is another point I wish to bring out. Between 1930 and 1938 Bradman had with him in England Ponsford, Woodfull, McCabe, Kippax, Brown, and Hassett. All scored heavily. In 1933 and 1939 West Indian batsan scored runs at various times, but George had nobody he could depend on. In 1933 his average in the Tests was 55.40. Among those who played regularly the next average was 23.83. In 1939 his average in Tests was 66.80. The next best batsman averaged 57.66, but of his total of 173 he made in 137 in one innings. Next was 27.50. It can be argued that this stiffened his resistance. I do not think so. And George most certainly does not. ‘I would be putting on my pads and sometimes before I has finished I would hear that the first wicket had gone.’ This is what he carried on his shoulders for nearly 10 years. None, not a single one of the great batsman, has ever been burdened for so long......
    Last edited by watson; 01-03-2014 at 09:57 PM.
    Len Hutton - Jack Hobbs - Ted Dexter - Peter May - Walter Hammond - Frank Woolley - Ian Botham - Alan Knott - Hedley Verity - John Snow - Fred Trueman

    Victor Trumper - Bill Lawry - Don Bradman - Greg Chappell - Allan Border - Keith Miller - Adam Gilchrist - Alan Davidson - Shane Warne - Dennis Lillee - Glenn McGrath

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    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Bradman didn't grow up playing on stickies so whatever.

    Australia doesn't have rain.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    For a bloke who was so incredibly single-minded about batting it always amazes when I read contemporaries of Bradman expressing the view that he batted like he cba on sticky wickets

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