Should Dhoni still captain India?

[Daemon]

Also, Zaheer Khan and Ishant Sharma are just as bad in their secondary skills as Ojha and Mishra.

Mishra is a far superior batsmen than Khan, Sharma and Ojha combined.

 

[honestbharani]

This is what our team will look like if you selected players on the merits of their primary skill alone:


Vijay
Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Rohit
Rahane
Dhoni (wk)
Zak
Ishant
Shami
Ojha


That team has a tail that is longer than any team can afford today, in overseas conditions... And the team will be without a decent first slip and very loose in ground fielding with the exception of Kohli & Rahane. And there is virtually no back up bowling apart from Kohli's medium pies and Rohit's decent-ish offspin. As I said, just not good enough to raise above mediocrity away from home.


Now, if you try to fit in the players who bring in more than just their primary skill and try and work out a combination that can get more runs and wickets than the opposition as a team, you might get something like this. And this is what is, the best side, IMO, for overseas conditions...


Pujara
Dhawan
Kohli
Rohit
Rahane
Dhoni (wk)
Jadeja
Ashwin/Bhuvi
Zak
Shami
Ishant/Umesh


I just think this side has a lot better chance of doing something than the other one.

 

[karan316]

This is what our team will look like if you selected players on the merits of their primary skill alone:


Vijay
Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Rohit
Rahane
Dhoni (wk)
Zak
Ishant
Shami
Ojha


That team has a tail that is longer than any team can afford today, in overseas conditions... And the team will be without a decent first slip and very loose in ground fielding with the exception of Kohli & Rahane. And there is virtually no back up bowling apart from Kohli's medium pies and Rohit's decent-ish offspin. As I said, just not good enough to raise above mediocrity away from home.


Now, if you try to fit in the players who bring in more than just their primary skill and try and work out a combination that can get more runs and wickets than the opposition as a team, you might get something like this. And this is what is, the best side, IMO, for overseas conditions...


Pujara
Dhawan
Kohli
Rohit
Rahane
Dhoni (wk)
Jadeja
Ashwin/Bhuvi
Zak
Shami
Ishant/Umesh


I just think this side has a lot better chance of doing something than the other one.

If the correct selections are made, we won't have MSD as the keeper, he will be replaced by Karthik who is technically sound, has a better chance of doing well overseas and is more likely to play long innings which Dhoni fails to do most of the times.
Even Rohit wouldn't fit IMO, his poor temperament and inability to do well on tracks which support bowlers make him a bad choice. Atleast for the time being.

If MSD is out of the batting lineup, we have a really strong top 6 with Dinesh Karthik. It leaves us with 2 options, either go with an extra batsmen and play 4 bowlers, or get in 2 allrounders and 3 bowlers.
Binny and Rishi Dhawan/Jadeja can fill the number 7 and 8 spot if we go for 2 all rounders, making our batting order very long and also leaving us with good bowling depth, the remaining 3 bowlers slots can be easily filled by a spinner(Ojha or Ashwin) and 2 pace bowlers or 3 pace bowlers depending on the conditions.

Most of the times, our bowlers are not able to handle the workload on away tours, they have to bowl very less in home conditions and all of a sudden they are bowling too many overs in away conditions. More bowling options would help in dividing the workload well and will allow the bowlers to bowl short, aggressive spells. Even in SA, the team always looked 1 bowler short and the bowlers went out of steam at crucial times, we could have easily drawn the series if we had more bowling options.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I've been critical of Rohit but he's got to be persisted with. Give him a few more games overseas. It's far too early to be judging him that harshly especially considering how long he had to wait to get into the test side when he deserved it

 

[Prince EWS]

A lot has been said about how it'd be "harsh" to drop Rahane or Rohit, but I don't really think it would be as I wouldn't really see it as a dropping; not unless they were ridiculously dropped for Rayudu or something. Sometimes conditions or team balance dictate that you leave out your worst batsman or worst bowler or whatever, and that's quite different from a poor-performance-based dropping.

Rahane would've known when he was brought in as a sixth specialist batsman overseas that his continued selection wasn't going to be purely in his own hands, just like when someone comes in for an injured guy. Rohit would've been aware that if Rahane performed he may find himself in that awkward "sixth batsman selected" position instead, too.

As far as away Tests are concerned Dhoni shouldn't be allowed anywhere near #6 so the top order stays as is, but at home the stocks of himself, Ashwin and Jadeja rise quite a bit as batsmen so five bowlers becomes a serious option. If a middle order batsman is left out to accommodate that in certain situations, that's not harsh, it's life.

 

[karan316]

I've been critical of Rohit but he's got to be persisted with. Give him a few more games overseas. It's far too early to be judging him that harshly especially considering how long he had to wait to get into the test side when he deserved it

He is immensely talented, but needs to display a better temperament and show some effectiveness on good bowling wickets, would agree that he needs a longer rope(my comment on dropping him altogether might just not be right), but wouldn't be a direct selection in the playing 11 all the time, depends on the combination required.

 

[Daemon]

A lot has been said about how it'd be "harsh" to drop Rahane or Rohit, but I don't really think it would be as I wouldn't really see it as a dropping; not unless they were ridiculously dropped for Rayudu or something. Sometimes conditions or team balance dictate that you leave out your worst batsman or worst bowler or whatever, and that's quite different from a poor-performance-based dropping.

Rahane would've known when he was brought in as a sixth specialist batsman overseas that his continued selection wasn't going to be purely in his own hands, just like when someone comes in for an injured guy. Rohit would've been aware that if Rahane performed he may find himself in that awkward "sixth batsman selected" position instead, too.

As far as away Tests are concerned Dhoni shouldn't be allowed anywhere near #6 so the top order stays as is, but at home the stocks of himself, Ashwin and Jadeja rise quite a bit as batsmen so five bowlers becomes a serious option. If a middle order batsman is left out to accommodate that in certain situations, that's not harsh, it's life.

We could just drop Vijay instead if we want to go down the 5 bowlers route at home.

 

[honestbharani]

Lol.. The issue here is that he is probably our safest slips fielder (he stands 2nd slip) now that Ashwin is no longer an automatic selection. I cringe to see this slips cordon changing so much simply because it is such a difficult art to practice in the FC in India (you hardly get batsmen nicking out so much) and with the bounce and pace of the tracks away from the SC, our guys juz keep shelling crucial chances there.. As I said, whatever selections we make, we end up finding ourselves well short of international class in some areas anyways.


And PEWS point is a good one. You just have the 6th best batsman in the side miss out if you wanna play 5 bowlers but where I differ with him is that I think Vijay is the 6th worst, not Rohit or Rahane. Rohit may well become the 6th worse soon enough but for now, I would think it is Vijay.

 

[Prince EWS]

Vijay is comfortably the worst IMO but I don't think you can go about making someone open when you play five batsmen but then go back to the middle order whenever you play six. Your openers have to be consistent selections, unless Ashwin opened the batting in a straight swap when you played five bowlers which would be odd to say the least.

 

[honestbharani]

Ash can very well be our generation's Manoj Prabhakar, tbh..

 

[G.I.Joe]

I'm always amazed at how batsmen's egos are treated as more fragile than that of bowlers. Teams have absolutely no hesitation following a horses for courses policy with bowlers (dropping the extra spinner overseas); why not extend it to batsmen? If Rohit Sharma continues his hackdom overseas, just play him at home and replace him with someone like Dinesh Karthik elsewhere. It wouldn't be entirely fair to Karthik to have to forego the easier gig at home, but I'm sure he'll settle for a lesser record in exchange for getting to represent the country more. Rohit will have to suck it and take the blow to his reputation. He'll have no one else but himself to blame. The team gets to play the best possible line up for the conditions.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Frankly we have no real problems in the batting department at all in tests tbh. In ODIs I think Rahane needs to make way for Pujara but that's about it. No real need to drop any of the top 6 imo. All we need to do is tell Ishant to **** off, tell Zaheer the same thing politely, bring in Yadav/Bhuvi/Pandey and try out Ojha overseas in tests.

 

[honestbharani]

Happy to see my blooper in the earlier post went unnoticed. I was talking about Rohit as the 2nd slip guy up there and when I said Vijay was the 6th worst batsman in the side, I actually meant he is the worst of the 6 specialist batsmen in the side.. Trying to type out long posts at CW from work does get one mixed up...

 

[hendrix]

This is what our team will look like if you selected players on the merits of their primary skill alone:


Vijay
Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Rohit
Rahane
Dhoni (wk)
Zak
Ishant
Shami
Ojha
.

What? Ishant and Zak are not your best bowlers.

I would've thought:

Vijay
Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Rohit
Dhoni
Bhuvi (or Pandey or anyone)
Shami
Umesh
Ojha

with the option of dropping Rohit for Ashwin.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I just assumed he meant batting was their primary discipline tbh

 

[Contra]

A lot has been said about how it'd be "harsh" to drop Rahane or Rohit, but I don't really think it would be as I wouldn't really see it as a dropping; not unless they were ridiculously dropped for Rayudu or something. Sometimes conditions or team balance dictate that you leave out your worst batsman or worst bowler or whatever, and that's quite different from a poor-performance-based dropping.

Rahane would've known when he was brought in as a sixth specialist batsman overseas that his continued selection wasn't going to be purely in his own hands, just like when someone comes in for an injured guy. Rohit would've been aware that if Rahane performed he may find himself in that awkward "sixth batsman selected" position instead, too.

As far as away Tests are concerned Dhoni shouldn't be allowed anywhere near #6 so the top order stays as is, but at home the stocks of himself, Ashwin and Jadeja rise quite a bit as batsmen so five bowlers becomes a serious option. If a middle order batsman is left out to accommodate that in certain situations, that's not harsh, it's life.

The issue is that India need 5 bowlers overseas as compared to at home, our pacers barely got a bowl in the India v Aus and India v Windies series at home, but overseas that extra bowler really helps to add balance to the side and distributes the workload more evenly. The issue is that India don't have a pace bowling all-rounder, I think Ashwin is a good enough batsmen to take Rohit's place in the 11, but India probably won't do that.

 

[YorksLanka]

can anyone enlighten me about varun aaron(i think that's his name) he played a few years ago and i thought he looked like a decent bowler. He opened with yadav and i thought that wasa good option for India..is Aaron still around/ injured/out of favour?

 

[honestbharani]

He is regarded as a LO specialist at this point. He is playing the Asia Cup game right now aws..

 

[YorksLanka]

actually yes i just got a chance to catch a bit and noticed he was playing.! is it a good thing to have him back from an Indian fans perspective as it fdoes seem so as a neutral? A pace line up of Shami, Yadav and Aaron would be pretty formidable surely?

 

[Daemon]

He's very raw, at the moment all he has is pace and nothing else. He's had some success in first class cricket this season but just bowling fast, straight and all over the place means I doubt he'll trouble most Test batsmen.