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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Between his or Worrell's. Hare to judge. Worrell would have probably gone into administration, Marshall coaching.
    From what I've read Worrell's was perhaps the bigger loss to WI cricket. But tragically neither Worrell nor Marshall got to see their mid 40s.

  2. #17
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    well how do you learn to be good if you can't surround yourself with the best people?
    You become really good by picking up stuff and then practicing yourself. Not by having bowling support staff around. How many super bowling support staff did Dennis Lillee, Richard Hadlee, Imran Khan, Shane Warne, Murali etc have? These guys were talented and they worked really hard themselves to become really good. Not because they had an army of support staff.
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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  3. #18
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    yeah no, that's not what i said. becoming the best is definitely the players responsibility and it is all on them to get out there and learn and improve, but part of doing that is finding someone who knows a lot more than you and becoming their annoying second shadow.

    it's really hard to learn anything without someone watching you looking for things to improve on and telling you how to improve on them. all those guys you name would have had people watching them and helping them.
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    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    You become really good by picking up stuff and then practicing yourself. Not by having bowling support staff around. How many super bowling support staff did Dennis Lillee, Richard Hadlee, Imran Khan, Shane Warne, Murali etc have? These guys were talented and they worked really hard themselves to become really good. Not because they had an army of support staff.
    During Dennis Lillie's time at the top the Australian team didn't even have a coach. Let alone specialist bowling coaches.


  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    You become really good by picking up stuff and then practicing yourself. Not by having bowling support staff around. How many super bowling support staff did Dennis Lillee, Richard Hadlee, Imran Khan, Shane Warne, Murali etc have? These guys were talented and they worked really hard themselves to become really good. Not because they had an army of support staff.
    Lillee and Warnie owed a great deal of their careers to modern surgery and physiotherapy tbf.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    yeah no, that's not what i said. becoming the best is definitely the players responsibility and it is all on them to get out there and learn and improve, but part of doing that is finding someone who knows a lot more than you and becoming their annoying second shadow.

    it's really hard to learn anything without someone watching you looking for things to improve on and telling you how to improve on them. all those guys you name would have had people watching them and helping them.
    Advice comes a dime a dozen. It is actually putting it into practice that is the real challenge.

    See below for an answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooksey View Post
    During Dennis Lillie's time at the top the Australian team didn't even have a coach. Let alone specialist bowling coaches.
    Phlegm is who you should have been responding to.

  7. #22
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    well no ****ing **** sherlock, when did i ever say putting advice into practice wasn't the real challenge?

    but in the first place you need the right people around you to listen to and put into place their ideas.

    and if lillee really was self made and never ever ever ever ever got some coaching between the ages of 0-retirement, he achieved greatness in spite of, not because of, his lack of coaching, and i guarantee you he studied his art pretty bloody hard to get himself up there.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    well no ****ing **** sherlock, when did i ever say putting advice into practice wasn't the real challenge?

    but in the first place you need the right people around you to listen to and put into place their ideas.

    and if lillee really was self made and never ever ever ever ever got some coaching between the ages of 0-retirement, he achieved greatness in spite of, not because of, his lack of coaching, and i guarantee you he studied his art pretty bloody hard to get himself up there.
    No **** sherlock. We thought he became the best bowler in the world by sucking dick. That is what I have been saying all along. All the guys who came up top studied their art bloody hard and Lillee was not an exception.

    So you are telling me that if Marshall was around the WI side dishing out a few bowling tips then the WI would have the greatest bowling line up in the world? There is nothing stopping the WI from getting bowling advice from top bowlers around the world. It wouldn't matter because that isn't the problem. Just admit it.

  9. #24
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    I don't think anyone is suggesting Dennis Llillee never, ever got any coaching

    But as I said above, during Lillie's time at the top the Australian team didn't have a coach. Let alone a specialist bowling coach.
    Last edited by Hooksey; 24-09-2013 at 08:20 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    No **** sherlock. We thought he became the best bowler in the world by sucking dick. That is what I have been saying all along. All the guys who came up top studied their art bloody hard and Lillee was not an exception.

    So you are telling me that if Marshall was around the WI side dishing out a few bowling tips then the WI would have the greatest bowling line up in the world? There is nothing stopping the WI from getting bowling advice from top bowlers around the world. It wouldn't matter because that isn't the problem. Just admit it.
    i don't think it is any coincidence the nz atack improved massively under bond, the australians under mcdermott, and the english under that other **** whose name excapes me after they threw out the bloke fiddling with anderson every five minutes.

    but by all means, stick your head in the sand and pretend coaching has no say in how good a cricketer turns out, because we all know what an amazing batsman afridi is for refusing to learn anything ever.

  11. #26
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    Troy Cooley is probably the guy you are thinking of. David Saker is of course the current bowling coach.

  12. #27
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    i don't think it is any coincidence the nz atack improved massively under bond, the australians under mcdermott, and the english under that other **** whose name excapes me after they threw out the bloke fiddling with anderson every five minutes.

    but by all means, stick your head in the sand and pretend coaching has no say in how good a cricketer turns out, because we all know what an amazing batsman afridi is for refusing to learn anything ever.
    ......haha, so essentially you are proving my point. That no matter how many excellent and qualified coaches you bring in if the player doesn't have that willingness and ethic to learn the coaching staff is pretty useless.

  13. #28
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    ffs, look, my point is that no matter how hard you work, having the best coaching available to help you makes everything a million times easier.

    you suggested marshall wouldn't have made one iota of difference, and i think that is blatantly not true.

    **** me.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    ffs, look, my point is that no matter how hard you work, having the best coaching available to help you makes everything a million times easier.

    you suggested marshall wouldn't have made one iota of difference, and i think that is blatantly not true.

    **** me.
    WTF.....I think you totally missed my point. I was saying that having good bowling support can't be the major factor in the decline of WI cricket. I thought you were saying otherwise.

    I never said Marshall wouldn't have made an iota of difference. In Afridi's case that is true though

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