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Thread: **Official** Indian Domestic Season 2013/14

  1. #16
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    End to a slightly disappointing, if not terrible, ODI series that India A lost. Was this another win-the-toss-win-the-match series? Were India A not playing as a team? Were they just playing for places in the national side? There are a few positives, but the one big negative is that none of them, except Yuvraj and Vinay, played for a series win. ODI prospect Kedar Jadhav had a poor series, throwing his wicket away prematurely in both instances.

    Two, no, three things may be noted- the Indian A team, albeit a different one from the one that squashed New Zealand A, has handled chases between 250 and 300 in even conditions nicely, but in a high chase, they fall apart, no matter how many batsmen they have. The combination of four bowlers with Yuvraj/Yusuf/Baba did not work. Clearly. West Indies A, on the other hand, choked the Indian A batsmen with tight bowling for the entire innings. The pace of the West Indian bowlers, vs the lack of pace of the Indians, also made a difference- the array of fours, sixes and easy singles could not be attempted on Cummins, bowling over 140K often.
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  2. #17
    U19 Vice-Captain JontyPanesar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    A little perspective required here. Yuvraj Singh has been stereotyped as an ODI/T20I specialist not good enough for Tests or FCs. Yet, if you dig up his domestic/FC stats, you'll find that while his average for Punjab is a modest 43 with six centuries, he seems to be a much better player for higher levels, short of Tests
    • North Zone (average 90, 7x100 of which 1x200)
    • Rest of India (average 63, 1x200)
    • India A (average 51, 1x100)
    • India Board XI (average 111, 1x100)
    • Even the Indian team's tour FC games (average 47, 1x100)

    So that's a combined average of 76.3 with eleven centuries, in 24 games for teams not Punjab (state side, lowest in FC) or India (where he's been in and out) and Yorkshire (a very dire 2003 season picked way before he was ready). These are not Ranji Trophy stats, but a combined figure of Duleep, Irani, India A (the kind that plays foreign reserves/futures, not the team from the silly Challenger Trophy), Indian Board XI and India's frontline touring side. Hardly laughable. It makes a lot of sense to bring this up, since he's also gained some new-found bowling form over the past four years, in limited-overs cricket. We're now seeing Jadeja as a frontline Test all-rounder, with bowling ability no more than that of Yuvraj, and not even fractionally as good with the bat. If Yuvraj can last a season of FC cricket, he may, at the very least, replace Jadeja as the all-rounder.
    I think your point is a good one but it still doesn't contradict the bigger problems with Yuvraj. He can be incredibly inconsistent in the longer format of the game (he looked on top of his game at Ahmedabad but looked out of sorts by the time India had been destroyed in Kolkata); I directly attribute this to never fully developing a solid track record in Ranji. Yuvraj's second major problem is technical. He loves driving and lazily getting on the front foot. That's ok in the subcontinent. But if he's not fundamentally sound on the front foot and he can't remain composed off the backfoot outside the subcontinent, leave aside stroke-making (remember Broad bullying him with the short ball?), he'll still come up short. Yuvraj's third major problem is fitness/laziness. We'll see if he starts taking care of his body as he should, but too often he's carrying extra weight.

    He's bloody good on flatter ODI pitches, but I wouldn't bring him anywhere near the test conversation (though he inevitably will be). I'd offer a similar critique of another LHB...Suresh Raina, yet he is always kept in the mix for the test squad surprisingly.

    As far as Yuvi's bowling goes, it's in some ways better, some ways worse than Jadeja's. B/c Yuvi's tall, he can extract a little more out of a pitch than Jadeja though both give it only a mild tweak. But Jadeja's role is really one of containment first, wicket-taking second (unless the pitch is really helpful). I'm not a Jadeja fan really, but he's far more accurate than Yuvraj, and that's what Dhoni and Fletch are (justifiably) looking for.

    I'll give Yuvraj this too...he has improved remarkably vs spinners. He really has developed a very strong sweep even against the turn...very Hayden-esque. I remember him being all at sea when he first debuted
    Last edited by JontyPanesar; 19-09-2013 at 07:06 PM.

  3. #18
    U19 Vice-Captain JontyPanesar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    The season will begin shortly, with two Challenger Trophy teams announced- India Blue and India Red.

    India Blue squad for the Challenger Trophy: Yuvraj Singh (capt), 2 Akshath Reddy, 3 Naman Ojha (wk), 4 Mandeep Singh, 5 Ankit Bawane, 6 Abhishek Nayar, 7 Manish Pandey, 8 Piyush Chawla, 9 Ankit Rajpoot, 10 Vinay Kumar, 11 Bhuvneshwar Kumar, 12 Iresh Saxena

    India Red squad for the Challenger Trophy: Irfan Pathan (capt), Robin Uthappa, Abhinav Mukund, Saurabh Tiwary, Gurkeerat Mann, Kedar Jadhav, Smit Patel (wk), Yusuf Pathan, Shahbaz Nadeem, Abhimanyu Mithun, Umesh Yadav, Suraj Yadav

    Delhi have yet to announce their team, but this time, the State team may be a lot more competitive. These Blue and Red teams are usually very disjointed, and made the most against a Bengal side that was missing Dinda, Shami and Manoj Tiwary. This Delhi team will have at least four players trying hard to secure or regain their places in the national side.

    In other news, Ramesh Powar joined Rajasthan, Ashok Malhotra is Bengal's chief coach while Ganguly is the chairman of the state's coaching committee (to help develop cricket at lower levels). Harmeet Singh, on the other hand, is struggling to get a contract, after that match-fixing mess where he was barely involved, and his bid to join Vidarbha was unsuccessful. Hopefully he won't miss out on this season.
    I'm really keen to see Chawla bowl...he seems to do really well every time he goes to England, but will it finally translate elsewhere? That said, I'm never sure how much to make of a List A match, his Ranji performance will reveal all.

    Isn't Irfan injured? I thought that's why he can't play in the India A matches?

    Mukund looked like such a promising batsman when I saw him in the WI and even in England, who simply lacked the mental toughness to not throw his wicket away after getting set. I don't know what has got the better of him, but I still hope he can return to his potential.

    Harmeet should have been playing for even a Group C side to at least get some FC experience under his belt. He wasn't breaking into the Mumbai XI...so I don't know what he was waiting for even prior to the match-fixing scandal.

  4. #19
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JontyPanesar View Post
    I think your point is a good one but it still doesn't contradict the bigger problems with Yuvraj. He can be incredibly inconsistent in the longer format of the game (he looked on top of his game at Ahmedabad but looked out of sorts by the time India had been destroyed in Kolkata); I directly attribute this to never fully developing a solid track record in Ranji. Yuvraj's second major problem is technical. He loves driving and lazily getting on the front foot. That's ok in the subcontinent. But if he's not fundamentally sound on the front foot and he can't remain composed off the backfoot outside the subcontinent, leave aside stroke-making (remember Broad bullying him with the short ball?), he'll still come up short. Yuvraj's third major problem is fitness/laziness. We'll see if he starts taking care of his body as he should, but too often he's carrying extra weight.

    He's bloody good on flatter ODI pitches, but I wouldn't bring him anywhere near the test conversation (though he inevitably will be). I'd offer a similar critique of another LHB...Suresh Raina, yet he is always kept in the mix for the test squad surprisingly.

    As far as Yuvi's bowling goes, it's in some ways better, some ways worse than Jadeja's. B/c Yuvi's tall, he can extract a little more out of a pitch than Jadeja though both give it only a mild tweak. But Jadeja's role is really one of containment first, wicket-taking second (unless the pitch is really helpful). I'm not a Jadeja fan really, but he's far more accurate than Yuvraj, and that's what Dhoni and Fletch are (justifiably) looking for.

    I'll give Yuvraj this too...he has improved remarkably vs spinners. He really has developed a very strong sweep even against the turn...very Hayden-esque. I remember him being all at sea when he first debuted
    Yes, Yuvraj is a more complete batsman than he was ten years ago, and I feel he, and some other youngsters, were picked way before their time. As a specialist batsman, he was never much good, and frankly, he can make himself useful, despite his technical shortcomings, if he can bowl 20-25 overs a match, to rest the tired arms of the strike bowlers. However, given the strength of the current Indian bowling attack, he's just a weak link in a somewhat weak bowling attack- which is what handed the OD series to WI-A on a platter.

    None of Yuvraj, Yusuf, Baba and Jadeja cut is as strike bowlers, unless the pitch turns at right angles. He's seriously one of the best batsmen on flat decks, but a poor bowler there, so if he can make himself useful on seam/spin-friendly pitches, you have, as an interim choice, a decent all-rounder, who can also bowl well without the layers of protection reserved for Jadeja and part-timers. Yuvraj is capable at containment, but economy under four is a long shot as easy singles may be taken off him. Limited containment is what he's capable of, and also rushing down several overs to rest the strike bowlers, but it doesn't seem to work out for a team with relatively weak bowling resources- five strike bowlers is the way forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by JontyPanesar View Post
    I'm really keen to see Chawla bowl...he seems to do really well every time he goes to England, but will it finally translate elsewhere? That said, I'm never sure how much to make of a List A match, his Ranji performance will reveal all.

    Isn't Irfan injured? I thought that's why he can't play in the India A matches?

    Mukund looked like such a promising batsman when I saw him in the WI and even in England, who simply lacked the mental toughness to not throw his wicket away after getting set. I don't know what has got the better of him, but I still hope he can return to his potential.

    Harmeet should have been playing for even a Group C side to at least get some FC experience under his belt. He wasn't breaking into the Mumbai XI...so I don't know what he was waiting for even prior to the match-fixing scandal.
    Irfan is out for six weeks, sadly. Mukund has, possibly, a few technical issues to sort out, but he is a more improved batsman now. Maybe he hasn't been given the chances he deserves, and he's definitely better than wicketkeepers pushed up to open.

    I don't know what's the matter with Mumbai's spin selections. They have been dire. Harmeet never got a chance, and Iqbal Abdulla was inexplicably dropped because he dropped one catch, while unknown Vishal Dabholkar and batsman-who-can-bowl-a-bit Ankeet Chavan (pre-fixing) were persisted with, even when they eased out Ramesh Powar. Dabholkar was an absolute desperate pick, and Chavan's out of the way, so Harmeet-Iqbal may be the choice for Mumbai this season.

    I don't think I want Chawla playing another game for India, because he's a lot more dubious a choice than even post-fixing Sreesanth. It's one matter throwing one delivery away and another using the system to deny decent players their chance.


  5. #20
    U19 Vice-Captain JontyPanesar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    I don't think I want Chawla playing another game for India, because he's a lot more dubious a choice than even post-fixing Sreesanth. It's one matter throwing one delivery away and another using the system to deny decent players their chance.
    My sentiments are similar about chawla but he has been killing it for Somerset. Taunton is pretty flat too, and yet he's getting wickets in buckets. I think it might be partially due to the drift he gets when he bowls because his arm is high but he falls over while bowling. It's not too dissimilar to how qadir/mushy/afridi bowled (with the seam not perfectly upright, the ball is going to drift in to rhbs, and possibly late if there's some overspin on it)

    Still he doesn't do jack in Ranji but mishra is no longer far and away India's best leggie

  6. #21
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Chawla's played just four matches for Somerset. Let him finish the whole season, and then the season after that, and maybe then he can be back in contention as an India prospect. He's been jack in Ranji, jack in Duleep, jack (or should I say rooster?) in an India uniform, so much that it will take two good seasons to have him playing for India again.

    There's still a fair difference in quality and utility between Mishra and the rest, which we seem to ignore just because Mishra's been dire on flat decks, but so was Dhoni's handling of him. There was one instance in Bangladesh, when Mishra bowled well against a Bangladeshi side mocked by stand-in skip Sehwag did scare them on the first day- only to have his name, initially embossed on the team sheet, scratched out and Ojha's name hand-scribbled on that sheet. He always missed out due to Harbhajan's reputation and Ojha's (also Ashwin's) youth- but none of them have done enough to be included even alongside him in the XI, let alone ahead of him.

    Another unlucky bloke who's suffered because of age bias and consequently age-cheats is Murali Kartik. He's got 220 FC wickets in England alone, for different counties, at an average of 25 and a strike rate slightly under 60. He should have been playing Tests at the expense of a then-dire Harbhajan.

  7. #22
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    Chawla's played just four matches for Somerset. Let him finish the whole season, and then the season after that, and maybe then he can be back in contention as an India prospect. He's been jack in Ranji, jack in Duleep, jack (or should I say rooster?) in an India uniform, so much that it will take two good seasons to have him playing for India again.

    There's still a fair difference in quality and utility between Mishra and the rest, which we seem to ignore just because Mishra's been dire on flat decks, but so was Dhoni's handling of him. There was one instance in Bangladesh, when Mishra bowled well against a Bangladeshi side mocked by stand-in skip Sehwag did scare them on the first day- only to have his name, initially embossed on the team sheet, scratched out and Ojha's name hand-scribbled on that sheet. He always missed out due to Harbhajan's reputation and Ojha's (also Ashwin's) youth- but none of them have done enough to be included even alongside him in the XI, let alone ahead of him.

    Another unlucky bloke who's suffered because of age bias and consequently age-cheats is Murali Kartik. He's got 220 FC wickets in England alone, for different counties, at an average of 25 and a strike rate slightly under 60. He should have been playing Tests at the expense of a then-dire Harbhajan.

    yeah, if England can Boyd Rankin' Murali Kartik, I think they would and have him ahead of Panesar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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    Good to see that Gambhir's decided playing the County match is more important than the Challenger trophy.

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    Been a while since I last saw Nayar. Looks to have improved so much in his limited overs play.

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    Cannot fathom why captains choose to give Kohli a bowl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Cannot fathom why captains choose to give Kohli a bowl.
    Kohli is captaining Delhi today

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsniks View Post
    Kohli is captaining Delhi today


    I swear the commentator just called the Delhi team Delhi Daredevils. Amazing.

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    Hehe, suck it Kohli. Bhuvi WAG.

    Sehwag in at 4, sending a clear message to the selectors here.

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    ****, definitely going to score big today. Have really missed watching him bat.

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    You ****s need to tune in, srs. He's going crazy.

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