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Thread: DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen - 100-75

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Ponsford, Redpath, and presumably Lawry in front of Arthur Morris. Nice.
    Looks about right to me, apart from Redpath, though I know little about him.
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. M.J Procter 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

  2. #32
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Here is the thing about Cullinan. I am unhappy with him being so far up, because it shows a slight flaw in my top opposition average calculation. Let me explain:

    vs. top tier opposition (7 tests against Australia, 1 against Pakistan), he scored 265 adjusted runs at an average of 20.38
    vs. 2nd tier opposition, he scored 908 adjusted runs at an average of 39.48
    vs. 3rd tier opposition, he scored 2842 runs at an average of 54.65

    A huge difference in averages between the tiers. I multiply the runs against top tier by 1.5 and the 3rd tier by 0.5, thus giving a new total of 2726 at an average of 39.80.

    Is there a better way to do this? He scored so many runs against 3rd tier opposition that it really makes his average higher than it should be.
    Greatest Ever Test XI: JB Hobbs, L Hutton, DG Bradman (c), IVA Richards, BC Lara, GS Sobers, AC Gilchrist (wk), Imran Khan, RJ Hadlee, MD Marshall, SK Warne 12th man: M Muralitharan


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  3. #33
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Looks about right to me, apart from Redpath, though I know little about him.
    There is no doubt that Morris was great to watch, but I've always thought that his stats and reputation hinge too much on the years immediately after the War. Once Bedser and Laker matured, then Statham and Tyson came along for England, and Ramadhin and Valentine for the West Indies, his averaged took a significant drop. In his first 4 series between 1946 and 1950 Morris averaged 67.68. But against better bowling he averaged 34.76 in his last 27 Tests. Admittedly, 34.76 isn't that bad for an opening batsman, but it seems mis-matched when put along side the tributes and his glowing reputation.

  4. #34
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Here is the thing about Cullinan. I am unhappy with him being so far up, because it shows a slight flaw in my top opposition average calculation. Let me explain:

    vs. top tier opposition (7 tests against Australia, 1 against Pakistan), he scored 265 adjusted runs at an average of 20.38
    vs. 2nd tier opposition, he scored 908 adjusted runs at an average of 39.48
    vs. 3rd tier opposition, he scored 2842 runs at an average of 54.65

    A huge difference in averages between the tiers. I multiply the runs against top tier by 1.5 and the 3rd tier by 0.5, thus giving a new total of 2726 at an average of 39.80.

    Is there a better way to do this? He scored so many runs against 3rd tier opposition that it really makes his average higher than it should be.
    maybe a ratio of top:second:third - if it's over a threshold it adds a penalty calculation
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    I just love all kinds of balls.


  5. #35
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Redpath's great innings:

    63 vs. India at Chennai 1969 (14.69)
    5th Test: India v Australia at Chennai, Dec 24-28, 1969 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
    171 vs. England at Perth 1970 (13.82)
    2nd Test: Australia v England at Perth, Dec 11-16, 1970 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
    159 vs. New Zealand at Auckland 1974 (14.96)
    3rd Test: New Zealand v Australia at Auckland, Mar 22-24, 1974 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

    The match against New Zealand also featured a great knock by Dougeh Walters in the first dig. Without those two innings, New Zealand might have won their first series against Australia.
    Cheers for that, I had never seen the 63 vs India scorecard before.

  6. #36
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Here is the thing about Cullinan. I am unhappy with him being so far up, because it shows a slight flaw in my top opposition average calculation. Let me explain:

    vs. top tier opposition (7 tests against Australia, 1 against Pakistan), he scored 265 adjusted runs at an average of 20.38
    vs. 2nd tier opposition, he scored 908 adjusted runs at an average of 39.48
    vs. 3rd tier opposition, he scored 2842 runs at an average of 54.65

    A huge difference in averages between the tiers. I multiply the runs against top tier by 1.5 and the 3rd tier by 0.5, thus giving a new total of 2726 at an average of 39.80.

    Is there a better way to do this? He scored so many runs against 3rd tier opposition that it really makes his average higher than it should be.
    That is fine I think. You are multiplying the tier 3 average by 0.5 which means Cullinan is effectively averaging 27.3 against that group. Similarly he is effectively averaging 30.8 against tier 1. So his runs against tier 3 teams are at a lesser effective average than the runs scored against tier 1 and 2 teams. In other words the fact that he scored so many runs against tier 3 opposition is affecting him negatively.

    I think your discounting of tier 3 opposition is actually quite steep. Averaging 20 against tier 1 is same as averaging 60 against tier 3! For most batsmen, tier 3 average will be under 60 and tier 1 will be above 20. So I suspect lesser they play against tier 3, better it will be for their adjusted average (the deep discounting will result in tier 3 games deteriorating the average rather than helping or staying neutral). An alternative might be to use 1/1.5 = 0.67 multiplier for tier 3 runs. That way every successive multiplier is 50% better than the previous one.
    Last edited by ankitj; 10-07-2013 at 04:16 AM.

  7. #37
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Great stuff so far. Love the Cullinan pick.
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  8. #38
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Contrary to the title of this thread, this will go to number 76 before I make another thread for numbers 75-51.

    Some great sub-continent middle-order batsmen here.


    80: Aravinda de Silva (Sri Lanka) (1984-2002)

    aravinda-de-silva.jpg

    Career Average: 42.97
    Adjusted career average: 42.62
    Adjusted away average: 36.08
    Adjusted top-opposition average: 41.87
    Top Tier centuries: 3
    Second tier centuries: 6
    Third tier centuries: 7
    Significant innings: 16
    Significant innings per match: 0.17
    Great innings: 2
    Innings worth average: 3.02

    25 Test peak adjusted average: 69.88
    50 Test peak adjusted average: 47.81


    Quality Points: 484
    Career Points: 83
    Peak Points: 122
    TOTAL POINTS: 689



    79: Mohammad Azharuddin (India) (1984-2000)

    1191051579782.jpg

    Career Average: 45.03
    Adjusted career average: 43.23
    Adjusted away average: 33.97
    Adjusted top-opposition average: 41.76
    Top Tier centuries: 9
    Second tier centuries: 0
    Third tier centuries: 10
    Significant innings: 20
    Significant innings per match: 0.20
    Great innings: 3
    Innings worth average: 3.07

    25 Test peak adjusted average: 50.95
    50 Test peak adjusted average: 44.49


    Quality Points: 490
    Career Points: 92
    Peak Points: 107
    TOTAL POINTS: 690



    78: Saleem Malik (Pakistan) (1982-1999)

    95243.jpg

    Career Average: 43.69
    Adjusted career average: 42.22
    Adjusted away average: 38.07
    Adjusted top-opposition average: 48.08
    Top Tier centuries: 3
    Second tier centuries: 1
    Third tier centuries: 8
    Significant innings: 24
    Significant innings per match: 0.23
    Great innings: 1
    Innings worth average: 2.99


    25 Test peak adjusted average: 57.90
    50 Test peak adjusted average: 49.69

    Quality Points: 490
    Career Points: 81
    Peak Points: 118
    TOTAL POINTS: 690



    77: Stewie Dempster (New Zealand) (1930-1933)

    38301-pc.jpg

    Career Average: 65.73
    Adjusted career average: 65.09
    Adjusted away average: 86.34*
    Adjusted top-opposition average: 88.07*
    Top Tier centuries: 1
    Second tier centuries: 1
    Third tier centuries: 0
    Significant innings: 3
    Significant innings per match: 0.30
    Great innings: 1
    Innings worth average: 4.05


    Quality Points: 653
    Career Points: 18
    Peak Points: 19
    TOTAL POINTS: 690

    * less than 10 matches played.


    76: Lindsay Hassett (Australia) (1938-1953)

    25371.jpg

    Career Average: 46.56
    Adjusted career average: 45.95
    Adjusted away average: 39.93
    Adjusted top-opposition average: 43.30
    Top Tier centuries: 2
    Second tier centuries: 3
    Third tier centuries: 2
    Significant innings: 13
    Significant innings per match: 0.30
    Great innings: 1
    Innings worth average: 3.07

    25 Test peak adjusted average: 54.49


    Quality Points: 521
    Career Points: 59
    Peak Points: 110
    TOTAL POINTS: 691
    Last edited by Days of Grace; 13-07-2013 at 02:54 AM.

  9. #39
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    Did not expect Dempster to be there, thats for sure.

  10. #40
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Cullinan must have got bonus marks for being the best mic'd-up captain in the domestic limited overs stuff.
    @CowsCorner - 202 followers and counting!

    Disclaimer: I am a biased South African. Anything I say is likely to have something in it that ultimately favours the Proteas.

  11. #41
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Did not expect Dempster to be there, thats for sure.
    Considering the qualification is 10 matches and 1000 days for a career, he just sneaks in.

  12. #42
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    I wonder if Vaughan made it, I think he was better than Bell for example but it's a bit too high for him now.

  13. #43
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Sorry, dude. Vaughan is at no.120 (or thereabouts since I haven't rated every player in history) on 635 points.

  14. #44
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Hassett too low.

  15. #45
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    Did anyone ask what Trott's great innings was?

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