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Thread: Geoff Armstrong- The 100 Greatest Cricketers

  1. #61
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Miller's best position was #5 and Sobers is the greatest #6 of all time, so I'd say that is reason enough. It doesn't mean he rated Miller ahead as a batsman.
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  2. #62
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    my preferences

    openers

    1.gavaskar
    2.barry richards
    3.hutton
    4.hobbs
    5.WG
    6.trumper
    7.sehwag
    8.merchant

    middle order
    1.sobers
    2.tendulkar
    3.lara
    4.viv
    5.don
    6.g.pollock
    7.headley
    8.hammond
    9.ranjit singhji

    10.g.chappel
    11.dravid
    12.ponting
    .
    .

    wicket keeper batsman
    1.gilly
    2.les ames
    3.knott
    4.flower


    all rounders (match winning (batsman+bowler) + fielding ability)
    1.sobers
    2.procter
    3.kapil
    4.botham
    5.miller

    6.imran
    7.hadlee

    spinners
    1.murali
    2.warne
    3. o reilly
    4.grimmet


    1.akram
    2.marshal
    3.hadlee
    4.lillee
    5.SFB
    6.mcgrath
    7.trueman
    8.donald
    9.ambros
    10.imran
    11.waqar


    and my 11
    gavasakr-barry
    viv
    sachin
    lara
    sobers
    gilly
    procter
    hadlee
    akram
    murali
    Last edited by sobers no:1; 09-02-2013 at 01:19 PM.

  3. #63
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Benaud himself said that Bradman was the best captain and had the best anlytical cricketing brain he has encountered, so Bradman is good enough for me as captain.
    Even if I could get past your obsession with Miller, why you would bat him over one of the greatest batsmen ever is beyound me, in that lineup I would even bat him at 4 (his best position, especially if he is not bowling that much) to separate the right handers.
    Miller would become necessary if you believed that;

    1. SF Barnes must be in the team because he is the greatest bowler of all time.
    2. Shane Warne (or Murali) must be in the team because he is the greatest spinner of all time.
    3. Any ATG team must have 3 world class fast bowlers on principle. Not 2 world class fast bowlers plus Sobers or Kallis.

    Therefore, Miller must be selected as he is a world class fast bowler, and the best batsman out of all the great 'bowling allrounders'.

    01. Len Hutton
    02. Sunil Gavaskar
    03. Don Bradman
    04. Sachin Tendulkar
    05. Keith Miller
    06. Gary Sobers
    07. Adam Gilchrist
    08. Malcolm Marshall
    09. Shane Warne
    10. Dennis Lillee
    11. SF Barnes
    "Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong" - Oscar Wilde

  4. #64
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social View Post

    “Pressure is a Messerschmitt up your arse, cricket is not.”
    I love Miller, but I get really sick of this quote being rolled out all the time.

    Surely the idea of international cricket is to win the game?


  5. #65
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    I don't see Barnes as necessary, so I guess I don't need Miller!

    - Hobbs
    - Gavaskar
    - Bradman *
    - G. Chappell ^
    - V. Richards ^
    - Sobers
    - Knott +
    - Hadlee
    - Davidson/Akram/Marshall/Ambrose/McGrath (depends on the day)
    - Warne
    - Lillee

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Taylor also faced, and got out to;

    Grimmett
    Gregory
    Tate
    McDonald
    Voce
    Larwood
    Wall
    O'Reilly
    etc
    Include FR Foster too whom he rated the hardest of the lot. Mailey as well I believe. Rhodes and Ironmonger too.

    The occasion where Mailey tried to influence O'Reilly came during a match. If O'Reilly took Mailey's advice it would have been detrimental to his career. Mailey was whimisical but he was jealous of O'Reilly. Not the 1st time a person outwardly known for their whimsy and easy going nature exploited that reputation to advance their own cause by harming another's. Tiger was smart enough to see the selfish intent in Mailey's supposedly helpful advice and rejected it.
    Last edited by the big bambino; 09-02-2013 at 01:55 PM.

  7. #67
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Conrad Hunte
    Bill Ponsford
    Ian Chappell * ^
    Martin Crowe ^
    Shivnarine Chanderpaul
    Mushtaq Mohammad
    Ian Healy +
    Wes Hall
    Alec Bedser
    Colin Croft
    Subhash Gupte


    Liked your line-up of teams kyear. However, the 9th team is a little unbalanced because it has 2 similar leg-spinners. Gupte needs to be an offie, left-armer, or at least a 'fast' leg-spinner like Chandra.

    I also agree with Armstrong that Ponsford had defective footwork against express bowling (which is why he was dropped from the Aussie team on 2-3 occasions). I think that a different opener is required. If you really wanted to include Ponsford then he would probably go better in the middle-order because he wouldn't get a 'new ball examination' every time he went into bat.

    And while I'm on the topic of 9th teams. Armstrong's 9th team is highly dubious IMO. Flintoff should not make the side on the basis of a single Ashes series, and McCabe was not a specialist opening batsman. ATG teams need specialist opening batsman.

    Therefore,

    01. Stan McCabe
    02. Herbie Taylor
    03. Vijay Hazare
    04. Clive Lloyd
    05. Inzamam-Ul-Haq
    06. Andy Flower
    07. Andrew Flintoff
    08. Bill Lockwood
    09. Jeff Thomson
    10. Tom Richardson
    11. Arthur Mailey

    Should be (without making whole sale changes);

    01. Gordon Greenidge
    02. Herbie Taylor
    03. Stan McCabe
    04. Vijay Hazare
    05. Clive Lloyd
    06. Andy Flower
    07. Aubrey Faulkner
    08. Bill Lockwood
    09. Jeff Thomson
    10. Tom Richardson
    11. Derek Underwood
    Last edited by watson; 09-02-2013 at 02:09 PM.

  8. #68
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    I don't see Barnes as necessary, so I guess I don't need Miller!

    - Hobbs
    - Gavaskar
    - Bradman *
    - G. Chappell ^
    - V. Richards ^
    - Sobers
    - Knott +
    - Hadlee
    - Davidson/Akram/Marshall/Ambrose/McGrath (depends on the day)
    - Warne
    - Lillee
    I've also talked to people that believe that both Warne and Murali "must" be in the team. Miller or Imran is then included at No.5 or 6 to boost the fast bowling.

  9. #69
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    I don't really see that 3 ATG quicks are necessary. Tell me, what is wrong with a bowling lineup of:

    Marshall
    McGrath
    Warne
    Murali
    Sobers

  10. #70
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    That Sobers is a very average bowler and if you are competing with a very talented team akin to your own you are at a significant disadvantage. If you wanted such a line-up you'd have to pick a bowling-allrounder who was world-class/ATG at that level - preferably Miller, or Imran.

  11. #71
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    I don't really see that 3 ATG quicks are necessary. Tell me, what is wrong with a bowling lineup of:

    Marshall
    McGrath
    Warne
    Murali
    Sobers
    It's modern convention I guess. Nothing wrong with that attack imo.

  12. #72
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    I have never seen the need for two spinners in a team, though Murali does deserve a place in an ATG first team
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  13. #73
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    It's modern convention I guess. Nothing wrong with that attack imo.
    Meh, spinner on within the first 15 overs of a test match just doesn't look right. Three fast bowlers + one of Warne/Murali + Sobers is a much better way to go.

  14. #74
    International Vice-Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    I don't see Barnes as necessary, so I guess I don't need Miller!

    - Hobbs
    - Gavaskar
    - Bradman *
    - G. Chappell ^
    - V. Richards ^
    - Sobers
    - Knott +
    - Hadlee
    - Davidson/Akram/Marshall/Ambrose/McGrath (depends on the day)
    - Warne
    - Lillee
    I personally don't like the idea of great batsmen from the same era occupy the middle order of an All Time XI. Likewise I don't like how you might end up with a line-up of Lillee, Marshall and Hadlee.
    Since about 50% of the total tests in history have been played in the last 20 odd years, I'd have at least 3/4 if not more players from the last 20 odd years in the side.
    Last edited by centurymaker; 09-02-2013 at 05:16 PM.
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  15. #75
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    I would like to read Mailey's criticism of O'Reilly to see where he was coming from. I would hazard a guess and reckon it would be along the lines of O'Reilly not being a 'real' leg-break googly bowler. That is - way too fast, no flight, no top-spin, no dip, and no deception. And all with a ridiculous grip on the ball.

    Also, Mailey had a wonderful sense of humour, understood irony, and rarely took himself seriously. 'Tiger' O'Reilly took himself overly seriously, so no wonder they didn't get along. Just another case of a fanatical person not being able to understand a whimsical person.
    I can't remember the exact arguments and hard to find with a cricket book collection as large as mine

    It was nothing really harsh just little things as I remember it
    You know it makes sense.

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