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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #1921
    State Vice-Captain JBMAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    I saw Knotty play loads of times, and Don Tallon was way before my time, so I can't make a direct comparison, but despite the glowing terms in which all his contemporaries describe his keeping I do wonder about Tallon

    For example the only truly great spinner he kept to in Tests was Tiger O'Reilly, just the once, in NZ just after the war - NZ mustered just 96 in their two innings combined, 8 of them byes

    In 46/47 Tallon conceded 91 byes in the 5 Tests, as against 47 by Godfrey Evans for England, which strikes me (in both cases) to be a lot more than you'd expect given their reputations
    Fair comments there fred.I am lucky enough to have seen them both.Saw Tallon in both Shield games and Tests and he was vastly superior to Knott in all facets of the Stumper's art.I have actually seen him on a number of occasions "stand up" for Lindwall and that is no mean feat in itself.I really don't consider the number of byes as a yardstick. eg the 4 byes Harmison gave away in that Test against the Aussies.
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  2. #1922
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBMAC View Post
    Fair comments there fred.I am lucky enough to have seen them both.Saw Tallon in both Shield games and Tests and he was vastly superior to Knott in all facets of the Stumper's art.I have actually seen him on a number of occasions "stand up" for Lindwall and that is no mean feat in itself.I really don't consider the number of byes as a yardstick. eg the 4 byes Harmison gave away in that Test against the Aussies.
    Yes I'm not reading too much into the byes figures - at the end of the day I know Tallon was an old-fashioned "stumper" who was always looking to pressurise the batsman and who therefore stood up to just about everybody whenever he could - Evans was cut from similar cloth although I don't think he often stood up to the out and fast men, but he certainly did to Alec Bedser - wouldn't have thought he would have dared to do so to Fiery Fred, unless he was trying to gee him up of course!

    Knotty on the other hand rarely stood up to seamers so I'd expect him to concede fewer byes and drop fewer catches than Tallon, but I was surprised just how many Tallon conceded in 46/47, but if he was standing up to Lindwall, and I don't suppose McCool, Tribe and Toshack were the easiest to keep to, then I won't be holding it against him!

  3. #1923
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Whats with the facination with two spinners though, the most effective attacks sine covered pitches have been three fast/seam bowlers and one spinner plus a part timer. The W.I. did it with four pacers and they fared pretty well. Don't see the nees for two spinners, plus it forces Sobers to bowl more overs.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  4. #1924
    H4G
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    My Greatest XI:

    Jack Hobbs
    Len Hutton
    Don Bradman
    Viv Richards
    George Headley
    Andy Flower+
    Imran Khan*
    Richard Hadlee
    Wasim Akram
    Curtley Ambrose
    Muralitharan


  5. #1925
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    My Greatest XI:

    Jack Hobbs
    Len Hutton
    Don Bradman
    Viv Richards
    George Headley
    Andy Flower+
    Imran Khan*
    Richard Hadlee
    Wasim Akram
    Curtley Ambrose
    Muralitharan
    One of these things is not like the other
    One of these things just doesn't belong..
    NRL Tipping Champion 2014

  6. #1926
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    Andy Flower was an excellent batsman. He was an average keeper.
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. M.J Procter 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

  7. #1927
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    From my memory he was a relatively poor keeper, and my opinion regarding Wasim is well known. Most over rated cricketer imho

  8. #1928
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Whats with the facination with two spinners though, the most effective attacks sine covered pitches have been three fast/seam bowlers and one spinner plus a part timer. The W.I. did it with four pacers and they fared pretty well. Don't see the nees for two spinners, plus it forces Sobers to bowl more overs.
    Well, when you have two world class spinners, you get these sort of stats for them..
    15 matches 26 innings, 88 wickets @ 20.85 with 9 5 fors and 4 10 fors, almost 6 wpm
    15 matches 27 innings, 81 wickets @ 21.46 with 6 5 fors and 2 10 fors, 5.4 wpm

    Has there ever been a more successful bowling duo? Between Grimmett and O'Reilly, they took 169 wickets in 15 matches, costing just 21.15 runs a wicket.

    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    My Greatest XI:

    Jack Hobbs
    Len Hutton
    Don Bradman*
    Viv Richards
    George Headley
    Andy Flower+
    Imran Khan
    Richard Hadlee
    Wasim Akram
    Curtley Ambrose
    Muralitharan
    Fixed.
    Last edited by Coronis; 29-04-2013 at 07:16 PM.

  9. #1929
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Hence why I referenced since the advent of covered pitches.
    Last edited by kyear2; 29-04-2013 at 07:21 PM.

  10. #1930
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Hence why I referenced since the advent of covered pitches.
    The last time a country had great spinners was probably Warne and MacGill, and I don't think we used them in tandem anywhere near as much as we should have. India didn't do bad at all with Bedi, Chandrasekhar, Prasanna and the little mentioned Ventaraghavan. In more recent times too, they've had success with Harbajhan and Kumble who are nowhere near the quality of Warne and MacGill.
    Last edited by Coronis; 29-04-2013 at 07:33 PM.

  11. #1931
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    From my memory he was a relatively poor keeper, and my opinion regarding Wasim is well known. Most over rated cricketer imho
    Why? Wasim was awesome. I've not heard your opinion on this.

  12. #1932
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Why? Wasim was awesome. I've not heard your opinion on this.
    Something along the lines of too high a proportion of tail end wickets, IIRC.

  13. #1933
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    I've just drafted Wasim, so I'll big him up by selecting him in today's ATG team.

    - Gordon Greenidge
    - Barry Richards
    - Don Bradman
    - Greg Chappell/Brian Lara
    - Viv Richards
    - Garry Sobers
    - Adam Gilchrist
    - Wasim Akram
    - Shane Warne
    - Dennis Lillee
    - Curtly Ambrose


    No one will beat that team. Ever.

  14. #1934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    I've just drafted Wasim, so I'll big him up by selecting him in today's ATG team.

    - Gordon Greenidge
    - Barry Richards
    - Don Bradman
    - Greg Chappell/Brian Lara
    - Viv Richards
    - Garry Sobers
    - Adam Gilchrist
    - Wasim Akram
    - Shane Warne
    - Dennis Lillee
    - Curtly Ambrose


    No one will beat that team. Ever.
    Jack Hobbs
    Herb Sutcliffe
    George Headley
    Graeme Pollock
    Wally Hammond
    Jacques Kallis
    Mike Procter
    Imran Khan*
    Alan Knott+
    Malcolm Marshall
    Murali

    Done. Batting to 10, and an arguably stronger bowling attack.
    Last edited by Coronis; 29-04-2013 at 10:17 PM.

  15. #1935
    Dan
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    Sunil Gavaskar
    Len Hutton
    Ricky Ponting
    Sachin Tendulkar
    Frank Worrell *
    Keith Miller
    Aubrey Faulkner
    Godfrey Evans +
    Harold Larwood
    Bill O'Reilly
    Glenn McGrath


    I'd back that XI against the teams you've put up.



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