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Thread: New Zealand doom and gloom thread

  1. #406
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    So, the de-facto 5-test series winds down in disappointing fashion.

    On the plus side, Southee and Boult look to have the potential to become New Zealand's best ever opening combination - at least in terms of the threat coming from both ends. Of course, because of this, there's a real danger that they'll both get bowled into career-threatening injuries.

    Despite this, our batsmen continue to wilt whenever confronted by anything remotely challenging. Taylor's slump continues to be really worrying. He's our only test class top-order bat. We rely on him in order to be competitive. I know he got **** on at the end of last year, but he has just got to find a way to get back to his best. In this respect, the upcoming break from test matches couldn't have come at a better time.

    As for the rest, one can only really repeat what's already been said. Brownlie has been a big let down after producing a number of promising starts. Williamson has tried his best, but he's not yet ready to face up to this level of bowling at number 3. McCullum has inevitably slipped back into being chaotically ****. Guptill...:vomits:. Blurg. There's really not a whole lot that can be done. There's no magic bullet for a top 6 that can't score runs.

    The fielding's been good though.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 26-05-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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  2. #407
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    The only test playing nations we may be able to beat in the mid-term are India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, simply because we are incapable of scoring >300 against good bowling attacks.

    Any other victories will be due to a) green tops (see Hobart) or b) complacent/crap bowling (e.g. nearly at Auckland).

  3. #408
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Something to take out of this at least:

    Trent Boult: 49 wickets @ 29.12

  4. #409
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5181 View Post
    Something to take out of this at least:

    Trent Boult: 49 wickets @ 29.12
    I think, even more encouraging than Boult coming on, is the Boult-Southee partnership as a whole. They've obviously played a lot of cricket together growing up and they really complement each other beautifully, primarily swinging it in opposition directions, bowling with different arms and delivering from different sides of the wicket.

    In the 12 Tests they've played together:

    Tim Southee - 46 wickets @ 26.65
    Trent Boult - 42 wickets @ 27.33

    Can't ask for any more than that from your opening bowlers.
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    Sanga has done well but Murali has done better. In my opinion, Murali is simply the best off spinner in history of cricket and I can't make that kind of statement for Sanga.
    Sanga isn't the best off spinner in the history of cricket? News to me.


  5. #410
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I think, even more encouraging than Boult coming on, is the Boult-Southee partnership as a whole. They've obviously played a lot of cricket together growing up and they really complement each other beautifully, primarily swinging it in opposition directions, bowling with different arms and delivering from different sides of the wicket.

    In the 12 Tests they've played together:

    Tim Southee - 46 wickets @ 26.65
    Trent Boult - 42 wickets @ 27.33

    Can't ask for any more than that from your opening bowlers.
    It's amazing to think that the opening bowlers have stats like that over 12 Tests together and the team has only won 3 of those Tests.

  6. #411
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Batting averages since the start of 2012 - so effectively 18 months:

    Fulton - 47.25
    Taylor - 44.72
    Rutherford - 35.75
    McCullum - 35.03
    Watling - 34.33
    Williamson - 31.29
    Guptill - 25.75
    Brownlie - 23.22
    Flynn - 21.81
    van Wyk - 21.31
    Vettori - 20.62
    Franklin - 17.85
    Munro - 7.50
    Nicol - 7.00

  7. #412
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I think, even more encouraging than Boult coming on, is the Boult-Southee partnership as a whole.
    Totally agree and you can see it when one of them is missing imo.

    This is a whole lot of guesswork (read probably BS) but I think Boult gives Southee focus and helps him think actively about his bowling when he's on the field. Without that Timmy seems to repeat mistakes rather than fix them, sometimes loses direction and lets things meander. You see with Boult's bowling that if he bowls a bad spell, he often comes back for the next one, has worked things out and bowls better. Some of that rubs off on Southee imo.

    Whereas I don't think Boult liked being seen to be the main man in South Africa. Perhaps puts too much pressure on himself to bowl something magic. When he plays with Southee I'd say the opposition still view Southee as the main threat, in part just because of the extra height and pace. And I think Boult likes that.

    Then there's the concrete fact that if they're not bowling with each other, chances are whoever is at the other end is either wayward or unthreatening or both.

  8. #413
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Definitely, different bowlers with different skills that complement one another nicely. Also means that if one has an off day (as Boult did on Saturday) the other can still keep the pressure on the batsmen and prevent the opposition from breaking away entirely. I reckon if we ever manage to cobble together a batting lineup that can consistently post 600 runs across both innings we'll win a lot of games.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 26-05-2013 at 10:14 PM.

  9. #414
    Dan
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    Global Moderator / Cricket Web Staff Member Dan's Avatar
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    I think the positive nature of Southee/Boult and the negative nature of the batting comes from being able to trust your partner, tbh.

    With the batting fragile and filled with inconsistent players, the more dependable blokes (mostly Williamson and Watling, from what we've seen recently) can't really trust anyone to stick with them - Fulton's limited, Rutherford either comes off or fails spectacularly, Taylor doesn't look like he gives a **** after what's been done to him, McCullum seems resigned to hit-and-hope at 4/60, and Brownlie doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

    So you end up with Williamson, who as we saw with his 90-odd in NZ, feeds of the bloke up the other end and bats well in partnerships, struggling. And you end up with Watling having the support of Neil Wagner down the order and that's about it.

    Whereas with the bowling, Southee and Boult know what they're getting down the other end - and if one's off, odds are they'll fix up the issue within a spell - exactly the stuff Straw Man is talking about.

  10. #415
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    It's amazing to think that the opening bowlers have stats like that over 12 Tests together and the team has only won 3 of those Tests.
    In my mind, we are basically like the West Indies of the late 1990s.

    Two very good opening bowlers, with not much back up and no real spinner to think of, and a flimsy batting order with a few names that folds all too frequently like a deck of cards, thus undoing all the good work of the new-ball bowlers.

    Where it breaks down is that Ross Taylor is not exactly Brian Lara, but you can see the general similarities between the two teams.

    West Indies in that period still competed very well against good opposition at home, but were often poor away (0-5 in South Africa was followed by a 2-2 draw against Australia at home).
    Greatest Ever Test XI: JB Hobbs, L Hutton, DG Bradman (c), IVA Richards, BC Lara, GS Sobers, AC Gilchrist (wk), Imran Khan, RJ Hadlee, MD Marshall, SK Warne 12th man: M Muralitharan


    Favorite XI: WG Grace, VT Trumper, IVA Richards, DCS Compton, FMM Worrell (c), AC Gilchrist (wk), CL Cairns, SK Warne, FS Trueman, SE Bond, T Richardson 12th man: H Larwood

  11. #416
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    In five months time we have a two test match series against Bangladesh. If everyone was injury-free/eligible etc, and you could select the players in any position you want, what would everyone have as their starting team?

  12. #417
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    1. Rutherford
    2. Latham/Fulton/Flynn
    3. Ryder
    4. Taylor
    5. Williamson
    6. McCullum
    7. Watling (w)
    8. Vettori
    9. Southee
    10. Boult
    11. McCleneghan/Milne

  13. #418
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    For tests in Bangladesh

    XI
    Rutherford
    Fulton
    Williamson
    Taylor
    McCullum
    Watling
    Vettori
    Southee
    Wagner
    B. Martin
    Boult

    Reserves
    Brownlie
    Ronchi
    Young allrounder - Anderson/Neesham
    Extra spinner - Nethula/Astle/Sodhi? Noone has impressed recently tbh. Alternatively consider someone properly quick like Milne.

    Very limited options for the top 7. Vettori comes in to replace Brownlie - I think Bangladesh should suit his batting.

    Reserves are the difficult part. Seeing as they don't want to play Latham as a keeper, the sensible thing to do would be to take Ronchi. I left out Ryder as I have no faith that things will fall into place with him in next five months (even if says he's eligible) - I'm handicapping myself here as 2008-2010 Ryder would drastically improve and balance the side, but I can't ignore the way he was batting in the last Plunket Shield.

    Tempted to leave Wagner out of the XI for someone like Astle or Anderson or Neesham.
    Last edited by straw man; 26-05-2013 at 11:00 PM.

  14. #419
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5181 View Post
    In five months time we have a two test match series against Bangladesh. If everyone was injury-free/eligible etc, and you could select the players in any position you want, what would everyone have as their starting team?
    Rutherford
    McCullum
    Williamson
    Taylor
    Ryder
    Watling
    Stokes
    Vettori
    Bracewell
    Southee
    Boult

    Brownlie and Fulton are going to get absolutely owned by Bangladesh's spinners IMO. Vettori's form before his injury was terrible but he does have an awesome record against Bangladesh - you probably would've lost the last series there if he wasn't playing - so he's worth another go, even if just because none of the other spinners really inspire confidence anyway. Bruce Martin leaves me so cold, and while I like Taste and Jeets they don't really warrant inclusion.

    I have decided to be a dickhead, take what you said in your post to the nth degree and pick Stokes.

  15. #420
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Would also have Fuller in there for Bracewell.

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