Pakistan v New Zealand ODI series

[marc71178]

IF NZ can win an OK percentage of ODI's & be ranked 3rd in tests with such a miss-match team then imagine what we can do with better players!.

About the same IMO.

2 teams in Test cricket are way ahead of the rest, and in ODI's most teams can beat any other on the day.

 

[anzac]

You wait mate, in the next 2 years NZ's batting is going to go to a whole new dimension with some of the players we've got coming through.

Forget Nevin, Vincent etc...when you've got guys like Peter Fulton scoring 300's & Rob Nicol averaging 45 after 2 seasons, you know the future is looking good, aswell as a large number of other players with good FC records.

IF NZ can win an OK percentage of ODI's & be ranked 3rd in tests with such a miss-match team then imagine what we can do with better players!.

Agreed that NZ batting appears to be on an upward cycle so far as domestic talent is concerned - my main problem is what NZ Cricket is going to achieve / do with it! In 2 - 3 years I can't see the current batting lineup changing that much as the current squad are mainly in their mid - late 20's unless thru injury / loss of form etc, yet even the latter circumstance the selectors have been more than patient with several players in recent years! NZ have had similar cycles in the past but the players missed out.

The flip side to any supposed increased talent in one skill is to view the quality of the other so as to judge if the 'talent' is real or not. Eg is the current level of bowling skills of a standard to suggest that the batsmen are on a genuine upward cycle, considering NZ has lost bowlers of the quality of Nash, O'Connor, Allott etc over the past few seasons?

As per my earlier post I am an advocat for 'succession planning' and what I perceive as the Aussie system to blood young newbies gradually over a period of time so as to achieve a level of consistency in team performance. However NZ Cricket has a more difficult set of circumstances than to presume they can just copy the Aussie system, & this is one area I have been critical about for various reasons.

 

[anzac]

About the same IMO.

2 teams in Test cricket are way ahead of the rest, and in ODI's most teams can beat any other on the day.

Maybe so for now, but with judicial long term planning & set up those gaps can be bridged. So far as ODIs are concerned everyone may be beatable (same as in Tests), but the Aussies have shown that you can decrease the number of times that occurs to almost a chance / random event.

The recent interview with Greg Chappel is an excellent indicator of what makes Aussie cricket tick, and why they will not fall away as per the great WI team of the '80s, and what the rest will need to do if they want to compete at their level & success in either form of the game. Talent alone will give you your cycles of success, but if you have a pro-active system the lows can be replaced by periods of levelling out at usually a higher level than the opposition on a similar cycle.

NZ Cricket has gone some way to taking such steps by working smarter in the field re innovative field placings etc, innovative training in preparation for the tour to India, and an attempt to produce better domestic pitches with more pace & bounce to encourage stroke play. India has recently taken similar steps re domestic pitches, and the fact that both attempts 'failed' in the last 12 months only shows that in order to make an omlete you have to break some eggs! I am unaware if any other national cricketing body has taken steps to step up to the mark or tried anything yet!

 

[anzac]

Franklin did alright in the VB series. He just lacks the pace to trouble batsman frequently, and he was used at the death where he was exposed.

Oram was very dissapointing in the Indian tour; but he's a better bowler than that. He usually bowls with enough precision and gets a good amount of pace to add variety to the NZ attack, but I'd rather have him bowling first change. NZ needs a bowler to accompany Tuffey, and I don't see Butler taking up that role (espiscally in the ODIs). Pace isn't enough to be troubling to batsman and it can work against you at the start of the innings, espiecally when you spray 1-2 balls every over on the legs of the batsman as Butler does.

With the new injury to Bond it looks ominous, but NZ can get 'through the summer without him to be competitive.

My understanding is that Franklin was originally identified as a 'talent' for the longer game not ODIs (same as Butler & Marshall), and it is one of my criticisms of NZ Cricket that they have selected 'talent' in the 'wrong' field & then discarded it when it hasn't performed! IMO this has been a contributing factor as to why so many of these players have 'failed' at both International & then domestic levels, as in the past there seems to have been little in the way of any infrastructure to continue to encourage or improve their performance.

It is also my opinion that the performances / careers to date of Vincent & Oram would be of a higher level & more consistant had such a system been in place. The same can also be said for the likes of Adams, McCullum, Mills, Hitchcock etc.

It is my view that NZ has tended to waste it's 'talent' and why genuine world class players are few and far between, yet others have had the talent to have been so. R Hadlee, M Crowe & C Cairns are the only succesful examples from my generation, and it is no coincidence IMO that all of them came from a cricketing family background when regarding the percieved lack of intrastructure / system. Rutherford had the talent to be world class as does Astle, McMillan & Fleming, yet it is doubtful than any will fulfill their potential / talent.

 

[Tim]

Well if NZ are remaining reasonably competitive against the top teams in test cricket with their current team, then you'd expect if the batting especially got better that they'd have a greater chance of winning a series against one of the top teams.

So I presume Marc that you're saying NZ will never get better than what they are currently at now?

 

[anzac]

Anzac, have you considered applying to be a CW Staff Member? You are obviously a NZ supporter with a lot of opinions on the team and I really do enjoy your posts without having to disagree with it and you could write some very good feature articles on NZ cricket.

View this as a compliment and full of praise as I usually dont give it out, I have been very impressed.

8D


Thanx for the compliment - it's nice to know that my views / opinions are enjoyable & I'm not considered to be another opinionated wind bag!!!! However I do consider myself to be nothing more than an 'opinionated weekend hack', as opposed to being an 'informed critic'. Furthermore although I love the game I have no playing background (wrong place at the wrong time & involved in different sports), and my location makes it difficult to keep in touch with the NZ domestic scene.

Most of my posts are based upon my observations / perceptions / comparissons as opposed to any hard / direct info - hence the proliferation of IMOs. As such I am no different to most members, and am actually inviting other more informed / knowledgeable members to respond to the IMOs to broaden my appreciation / knowledge of the subject. I just try to set it out in a logical thought process so they can follow where I am coming from and can correct me where applicable / required. My apologies if this has given the impression that I actually know what I am talking about.

I'm afraid that any suggestion of my wanting to become a staff member or writing any articles on this great game would be giving me more credibility than I deserve - but thanx.

 

[anzac]

Well if NZ are remaining reasonably competitive against the top teams in test cricket with their current team, then you'd expect if the batting especially got better that they'd have a greater chance of winning a series against one of the top teams.

So I presume Marc that you're saying NZ will never get better than what they are currently at now?

Nah.......He's just saying that because there is a tour to England next year / season & he wants to think that England will extract revenge for the series loss last time NZ went there!!! Furthermore he knows that NZ's only weakness in comparisson to Engalnd is the batting, and he wants England to stay ahead of NZ in the Test rankings!!!

To have a team lacking in genuine world class players / players rated in the top individual rankings ahead of England is unbearable!!!!

 

[Craig]

Give him something to gloat about :P

How fast is Michael Mason?

 

[Tim]

I'd say Mason would max at around 135 km's, he doesn't get much swing, he tries to bowl every ball just outside off-stump..hence the reason why is FC bowling stats are very good.

 

[marc71178]

Nah.......He's just saying that because there is a tour to England next year / season & he wants to think that England will extract revenge for the series loss last time NZ went there!!! Furthermore he knows that NZ's only weakness in comparisson to Engalnd is the batting, and he wants England to stay ahead of NZ in the Test rankings!!!

To have a team lacking in genuine world class players / players rated in the top individual rankings ahead of England is unbearable!!!!

Nothing of the sort.

My view is that Aus and SA are way ahead of the rest in Tests at the moment, and I cannot see them really being challenged for a long time.

In ODI's my points were more valid as almost every series not involving Australia will be close.

 

[anzac]

Nothing of the sort.

My view is that Aus and SA are way ahead of the rest in Tests at the moment, and I cannot see them really being challenged for a long time.

In ODI's my points were more valid as almost every series not involving Australia will be close.

I know mate & I agree - I was just having a send and you bit.....

 

[Salamuddin]

test rankings

Australia are certainly streets ahead of everyone else.

I dunno about SA -- if they are that good then why did they fail to
win either the series in England or the one in Pakistan ?

They are probably still no 2 but I think the gap between Pak, NZ, SAF, ENG in test cricket is not all that great.

 

[Neil Pickup]

As shown by the only decent ranking system around

 

[stevo22]

Hamish Marshall may be one of those players who can rise dramatically once on the international stage, but I have a feeling he'll come back down to earth quickly.

His FC & ODI records are extremely poor & its no real wonder why he was never picked again after the South African tour.
He just didn't put his hand up again, and infact it was his brother James who did for awhile by scoring a double century & a few other good innings but just like Hamish he quickly fell away.

It's hard to see Hamish staying in the NZ team for long if McIntosh, Nicol & someone like Ryder have another bumper season for their respective regions.

:O :O

I have to disagree with you on this one - i think Hamish is gonna really break through in the next year.

But then he's my girlfriend's cousin so i would say that!
Seems to me he's a big time player - FC averages aren't probably as good as they could be but 2 pretty impressive international debuts - both test and ODI.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Woo, semi-celebrity

Welcome aboard, Stevo!

And I agree re: Hamish.

 

[Tim]

Well i hope your right mate, in terms of fielding Hamish is just as good as Vincent so if he bats better then the NZ selectors will have an easy choice between him & Vincent.

The other thing in favour of Marshall is that he is just a straight middle order batsman..so he can't be mucked around like Vincent who has batted anywhere from 1-4 for Auckland.
If NZ are going to keep Marshall in the team, he can really only bat 4,5 or 6...and that's the right way to go IMO.

 

[Tim]

Great start for Peter Fulton in the State Championship, on Day One he has scored 101* off 180 balls against Otago.

It's a shame we no longer get coverage of the 4 dayers on Cric-info..although we will see the OneDayers on TV & also on CricInfo.

But it seems at both our major test venues Wellington & Hamilton there are concerns about how much assitance the bowlers are getting...both Central Districts & Northern Districts have been bowled out on Day one for very low scores.
Auckland have already lost Vincent & McIntosh against N.D...so quite disappointing.

The other positive today was that Andre Adams took 5/40 off 19 overs..so he seems to be finding some form at the moment.

 

[southern man]

Jeff wilson has tken 3 wickets for otago so far.

 

[Tim]

Well this may be the season where Jeff will have to show that he's improving or else he may miss out on playing for NZ again because he's 29?

I think he should be aiming for NZ 'A' because its doubtful the selectors would pick him before players like Adams, Canning & Walker at this stage.

 

[Salamuddin]

Mohammmad Sami is pretty fast isn't he !

He's just blown away the Kiwis in a ODI.