kallis had to deal with competition from the likes of donald, pollock, ntini, steyn, nel and hayward within his own team. because he wasn't perceived to be as attacking as most of that lot he often had to bowl a containment line - and his bowling's generally considered more of a bonus than an intrinsic weapon in its own right. putting aside the psychological impact on him,
arguably he picked up a lot of wickets because of the pressure sustained by having a relatively good attack behind him and i can see the intuitive sense in this - and i can debate this point till the cows come home - but i really think, based on watching him bowl quite often, his role within the bowling attacks he has been part of have actually hindered kallis' stats more than the other way around.
with all due respect, i don't reckon sobers' contemporaries within his team have the same pedigree. i am pretty sure kallis would have been right up there with sobers in the west indian team of 1960s based purely on his bowling skills. sobers appears to be, demonstrably, a better batsman though the sheer amount of cricket kallis has played, in all sorts of conditions around the world, is something that isn't recognised enough. it's an important aspect of the longevity debate
in the latest series versus sri lanka, kallis was still firing them in around 140k at the age of 36. these are the kind of deliveries that'll be as tricky to negotiate in 1962 as they are in 2012. i have a great deal of respect for sobers bowling skills, primarily because of the regard his contemporaries seem to hold him in, but nothing i've read suggests to me that sobers maintained this kind of penetration in his advanced years.
Whoever it was(it may have been your good self) asked what competition Sobers had and I listed some of the bowlers he was in competition with. Sorry, but it was an answer to the question which was asked.
And LOL Nantie Hayward.
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You asked who the bowlers were he had to compete with, I'm just listing them. Oh got an answer then responded with a glib "oh, 90s was the best".
I omitted Trueman and Statham btw. Not sure if Laker and Tyson crossed over with Sobers as well.
Agh! can't believe have to repeat again
Sobers was the best batsman of his generation. He had damn good series with bowling i.e. close to topping bowling charts. During period from 60 - 68 he was averaging 66 with the bat, 29 with the ball.
For all those who keep on harping about his bowling SR, what about his batting SR? which is reputedly by far the best in that era.
Hall, Griffith, Davidson, Gibbs, Valentine, Benaud, Mckenzie, Lindwall, Miller, Snow, Underwood, Bedi, Prasanna, Chandra, Lillee
Which is surely more relevant when trying to determine the impact on his bowling ranking. Whilst, the list provided of Kallis' 90s contemporaries:
Donald, McGrath, Pollock, Wasim, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh,
They would have been direct competition for bowling rankings at the same time as Kallis' bowling peak.
Lillee, for example, is a complete irrelevance as by his debut in 71, I doubt whether Sobers was reasonably at his peak. He took 40 more wickets over the remainder of his career post 1970.
Last edited by HeathDavisSpeed; 09-01-2012 at 05:51 PM.
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Supporting Petone's Finest since the very start - Iain O'Brien
Adam Wheater - Another batsman off the Essex production line
Also Supporting the All Time #1 Batsman of All Time Ever - Jacques Kallis and the much maligned Peter Siddle.
Vimes tells it how it is:
2002-2006 (57 Tests) - averaged about 72
Rest of his career (103 Tests) - averaged about 42
If form is temporary and class is permanent... then either Ponting is a class player who has been out of form for 2/3 of his career.. (lol)... or maybe he's just an ordinary player who had a 4 year purple patch?
Would take Kallis above Ponting too.
Last edited by Burgey; 09-01-2012 at 05:57 PM.
The South African team have always had a safety first approach so I don't see how Kallis being cautious can be selfish. It's funny because if he got a quickfire 40 and nicked off people would say it was careless .
And as an all round cricketer I would definitely take Kallis over Ponting. Not sure about batting alone.
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