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Thread: ***Official*** Australia in South Africa

  1. #751
    International Debutant adub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    Agree massively.

    He and Harris put a floor under our attack.

    Even if they're not getting wickets, they are applying pressure and are always 'at' the batsman.

    FFS we just won a series.

    Let's not abandon something that works.

    We don't have that luxury.
    Yep, Copes and Harris is the first new ball partnership we've had in a while that both did a bit with the new ball to create chances AND kept the run rate down. Definitely deserve the chance to show they can do it in different conditions and against different batsmen. It's the first change bowler's spot that should be under the microscope.

  2. #752
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    Agree massively.

    He and Harris put a floor under our attack.

    Even if they're not getting wickets, they are applying pressure and are always 'at' the batsman.

    FFS we just won a series.

    Let's not abandon something that works.

    We don't have that luxury.
    Quote Originally Posted by adub View Post
    Yep, Copes and Harris is the first new ball partnership we've had in a while that both did a bit with the new ball to create chances AND kept the run rate down. Definitely deserve the chance to show they can do it in different conditions and against different batsmen. It's the first change bowler's spot that should be under the microscope.
    Can't argue with any of this. A lot of Australia's success during the McGrath-Warne era was founded on an ability to dry up runs, even on flat decks. It's easy to forget when you look back at their brilliance, that a lot of those wins were ground out by bowling with enormous discipline.

    They were a great side, of course, and a lot of elements went into their success. But an ability to bowl tight lines and lengths was a big part of it.
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  3. #753
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    McG was actually around the mid-140's when he was really putting in, the decision to bowl within himself was a deliberate one.

    Re: the bowling, even without the greats, it hasn't been woeful the past couple of years. A few Tests aside, it's been relatively good. Generally speaking, you'll get solid value from any combo of Johnson/Bolly/Copeland/Siddle/Hilf (yes, even Hilf)/Harris/etc.

    The biggest problems for the team as a whole have been with the bat. It's easy to blame the bowlers when the oppo gets 400+ but when that score has been in response to being rolled for <200 (sometimes < 100), well......
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  4. #754
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    McG was actually around the mid-140's when he was really putting in, the decision to bowl within himself was a deliberate one.

    Re: the bowling, even without the greats, it hasn't been woeful the past couple of years. A few Tests aside, it's been relatively good. Generally speaking, you'll get solid value from any combo of Johnson/Bolly/Copeland/Siddle/Hilf (yes, even Hilf)/Harris/etc.

    The biggest problems for the team as a whole have been with the bat. It's easy to blame the bowlers when the oppo gets 400+ but when that score has been in response to being rolled for <200 (sometimes < 100), well......
    I think it's fair to say every loss we've had in recent times has been accompanied by a woeful batting performance.


  5. #755
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    *caused by

  6. #756
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    *caused by
    Yep.

    The Ashes series was the only one in which the bowlers significantly underperformed.

  7. #757
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    It seems, with the selection of Cummins, my Ashes Aftermath paper made its way into the halls of CA's Jollimont offices, and is being adopted at least in part, and I quote:

    We need to blood and persist with some youth. I remember 1993-1995, when performing players like Jones and Boon were shown the door, and even Allan Border. In were brought young punks like Warne, McGrath, Slater, Martyn, Ponting, Hayden, Langer etc. Arguably, they all debuted before their time, and eventually got dropped. But they all made it back, no doubt hardened by the Test match cauldron. The point is that if you’re a good young player, Test cricket accelerates your development, it doesn’t stunt it.

    The selectors need to invest in a core group of young players and give them time and get some games into them. I’d rather fail with a young team with some upside, than get lapped like we were last summer with older players in the team with no upside. It’s not about youth for youth’s sake, but rather selecting guys with upside to their games – and mostly such players happen to be young. When nobody is really performing, go with guys who have an upside.

    It’s time to invest in young guys like O’Keefe, Usman, Smith, Paine, Cummins, Copeland, Pattinson, Lynn, and Ferguson - not fill the team with 29 year old debutants like North. Debuting guys at that age is in many cases dead-end. We need to plan not for our next Ashes series, but for our next era of dominance (like we did back in 1993-1995, see above). You can only do that by casting a little way forward, and investing in youth
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  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    Yep.

    The Ashes series was the only one in which the bowlers significantly underperformed.
    During the Ashes, posters on AGB were running a list of shame with number of sub 300 scores by Aus in the past three years.

    It was endless.

  9. #759
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Yeah but your point about 29 year old debutants is stupid.

  10. #760
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamSawnoff View Post
    During the Ashes, posters on AGB were running a list of shame with number of sub 300 scores by Aus in the past three years.

    It was endless.
    If you were to compare the number of times the batting failed with the number of times the bowling has failed then the batsman would 'win' that particular accolade by a stmile.

    And yet, what real changes have been made? Marcuss North has been dumped, as has Katich. Watson has been allowed to continually underperform, Ponting is bulletproof, Clarke lost form for 6 months (and had more than enough credit in the bank to be retained) and Hussey was allowed to stink up the joint for 2 years.

  11. #761
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adub View Post
    It's the first change bowler's spot that should be under the microscope.
    ATWA. wheres that button

  12. #762
    State Captain Sylvester's Avatar
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    Australia in South Africa 2011-12: Shane Watson, Shaun Marsh doubtful for ODIs | Cricket News | South Africa v Australia | ESPN Cricinfo

    Much rather see Mitch Marsh over White. Watson's injury could well open the door for Marsh as well and Warner probably will get a chance to open. Hopefully he takes his chance as so far his SA tour has been a disaster.

  13. #763
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    The big question is not about Copeland v Cummins it's about whether the selectors have the guts to drop Johnson and go in with an attack of Harris, Copeland and Cummins.

    AAlso I can't believe Hauritz didn't make the squad. Sure Lyon got 5 fer in the first game but he didn't look that great after that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    This English top three are cornflakes. They're not the most exciting thing out but they're pretty effective. Then the middle order are the sugar. Would be too much on their own but added to the cornflakes they add some much needed interest

    When KP returns he will be the banana..

  14. #764
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinet96 View Post
    The big question is not about Copeland v Cummins it's about whether the selectors have the guts to drop Johnson and go in with an attack of Harris, Copeland and Cummins.

    AAlso I can't believe Hauritz didn't make the squad. Sure Lyon got 5 fer in the first game but he didn't look that great after that.
    Hauritz has hardly played a game, I think, since he hurt himself last summer.

    Lyon bowled well in SL IMO.

  15. #765
    International Debutant adub's Avatar
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    Haurie had a set back in India, that's why he's not playing this week.



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