*Official* South Africa in India

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by VFE

Low and slow is useless to all bowlers.

Bounce and carry is what all bowlers need.

Variable bounce is just unfair to batsmen.

The perfect Sub Cont pitch is turn from the start and bounce. The seamers can use the bounce and at least be useful if they bowl well and the spinners play a part from the beginning. The batsmen have a chance if they play well (no to variable bounce) and its a spin challenge.

It NOT about dustbowls, its about spin and bounce. But to be honest they havent produced decent pitches in India for a while now.

Consistent bounce would make it a batting paradise if you possess a good back foot game.

[honestbharani]

Originally Posted by VFE

Low and slow is useless to all bowlers.

Bounce and carry is what all bowlers need.

Variable bounce is just unfair to batsmen.

The perfect Sub Cont pitch is turn from the start and bounce. The seamers can use the bounce and at least be useful if they bowl well and the spinners play a part from the beginning. The batsmen have a chance if they play well (no to variable bounce) and its a spin challenge.

It NOT about dustbowls, its about spin and bounce. But to be honest they havent produced decent pitches in India for a while now.

Low and slow is not useless if you know how to use it as a bowler.. See McGrath for an example. I understand that batsmen can easily apply themselves and keep blocking for a long time in such conditions but there are things you can do even in such conditions to get wickets.. To keep complaining never gets you anymore. Even a real flat track can be useful to get wickets with the right discipline, accuracy, captaincy and field settings... And India just won by an innings on two pretty subcontinental tracks against another subcontinent side..

[VFE]

When has McGrath done well on low slow pitches?

Maybe he has, but not consistently I dont think. Not many bowlers do unless they posess reverse swing and searing pace.

He does have a good record in India, but the majority of his wickets there were not on low, slow pitches. In 2001 all the pitches had bounce (witness Harbhajans dismissals and hauls that series) and in 2004 they were also reasonable for the most part. Maybe spinning, but with bounce often.

Bounce gives a fair chance to bowlers and batsmen. Yes a good player can play off the back foot but they certainly cannot just sit there and a good bowler will get them if they do. Bounce isnt about the short ball in the ribs or the ball sitting up to be hit or the length ball bouncing just right, its about the bowler having his efforts and talents magnified and helping him get results.

Its the lack of bounce that makes current Sub Cont pitches for the most part rubbish.

[VFE]

Originally Posted by nexxus

Well, I loves me some variable bounce on the last day of a test. Nothing like the drama of a high class bat countering some throatballs & torpedoes with both sides looking for a win.

Well yes, on some pitches at the moment I agree.

Would be better to have an even contest throughout with help for bowler and batsmen though. Probably not going to happen though!!

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by VFE

Bounce gives a fair chance to bowlers and batsmen. Yes a good player can play off the back foot but they certainly cannot just sit there and a good bowler will get them if they do. Bounce isnt about the short ball in the ribs or the ball sitting up to be hit or the length ball bouncing just right, its about the bowler having his efforts and talents magnified and helping him get results.

Its the lack of bounce that makes current Sub Cont pitches for the most part rubbish.

Why have Australian surfaces turned into batting paradises over the last few years? I think that is mainly because not the bounce has gone out but that it has become predictable. I think you are talking things only from pace bowlers' point of view when you mention like "his efforts are rewarded etc".

Complete lack of bounce is a dreary pitch I admit. They make for some utterly unwatchable cricket like Ahmedabad test or the Bangalore test vs Pakistan in 2008. That is why I am always looking forward to spinning dens of the 90ss in India because they offer unexpected bounce. In 2001 series Kolkota and Chennai, especially the latter was all about that. Particularly remember Ricky Ponting's unfortunate struggles when he used to lunge forward to a length only to be shocked by rapidly rising one which invariably resulted in close in bat pad catches. To counter this when he went playing on the backfoot, out came the torpedo which caught him plumb near the ankles. Such pitches put into test the ability of the batsman to judge length and his horizontal bat play.

[VFE]

I was thinking from a spinners view too. Generally they love bounce too.

Unpredictable bounce is better I agree but that goes for all bowlers and is unfair on the batsmen (though no more so than a flat track is for bowlers).

[VFE]

I have to disagree that unpredictable bounce tests how good a batsmen is though. It just becomes a lottery.

True it can make for good matches on occasions but not overall. And some great players could cope with it but I am not sure its a prerequisite for greatness as such but maybe another way of proving it.

I am not sure many (if any) players now would be able to play unreliable bounce consistently or well.

[silentstriker]

Who gives a **** about the batsmen? I've had enough of their nancy-boy whinging. Bring on the sticky wickets.

[social]

Could be an interesting Indian lineup for the first test with Dravid, Laxman, Yuvi and Sreesanth all struggling to be fit

[Irish_Opener]

Can't see SA winning in India.

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by social

Could be an interesting Indian lineup for the first test with Dravid, Laxman, Yuvi and Sreesanth all struggling to be fit

Sachin might be injured too...

[sunilreddy]

Replacements for Dravid, Laxman, Yuvraj : Murali Vijay, Badrinath(?), ........

[Sir Alex]

Murali Vijay (should bat at no.3)
Cheteswar Pujara
S Badrinath

[G.I.Joe]

No Dravid, Laxman, Tendulkar = bye bye #1 ranking.

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by G.I.Joe

No Dravid, Laxman, Tendulkar = bye bye #1 ranking.

Tendulkar is okay.