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Thread: This review system could be death to bowlers.

  1. #16
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    I think there's a grey area where, for example, someone is repeatedly kicking an off-spinner away outside off when trying to save a game. The umpire might say, well, I can't say beyond all reasonable doubt that that ball was hitting the stumps, but one of the 30 you've kicked away most certainly was and I'm not going to extend the BOD that far, so you're out. On referral, that decision would be overturned.

    Some might call that a flaw in the system, others might say no umpire should ever have had that power in the first place.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I think there's a grey area where, for example, someone is repeatedly kicking an off-spinner away outside off when trying to save a game. The umpire might say, well, I can't say beyond all reasonable doubt that that ball was hitting the stumps, but one of the 30 you've kicked away most certainly was and I'm not going to extend the BOD that far, so you're out. On referral, that decision would be overturned.

    Some might call that a flaw in the system, others might say no umpire should ever have had that power in the first place.
    Precisely what Darrell Hair did when he fired out Jimmy Adams and Curtley Ambrose when the West Indies had spent all day kicking away the England spinners. They were both four foot wide of off stump and he no right to give them as he was guessing.

  3. #18
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Indeed- quite typical of Darrell Hair that.

    On one hand I think it's a bit prickish of him but on the other hand it's probably good for the game in the long-run if batsmen know they can't get away with playing exclusively with their pads. I'm quite content to sit on the fence here. But even if I were steadfastly defensive of the umpire's authority to make that call, I'd still be very much in favour of referrals.

  4. #19
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I think there's a grey area where, for example, someone is repeatedly kicking an off-spinner away outside off when trying to save a game. The umpire might say, well, I can't say beyond all reasonable doubt that that ball was hitting the stumps, but one of the 30 you've kicked away most certainly was and I'm not going to extend the BOD that far, so you're out.
    Should never ever happen. The rules are quite clear. 30 maybes does not equal one out.
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there will be edits

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  5. #20
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    One thing that I reckon it will do is allow commentators to deflect the blame away from umpires for making an initial bad decision, onto players for not referring the decision.

  6. #21
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Rightly so, though. If you don't use a referral, you weren't sure whether it was out, and therefore it's reasonable for the umpire to not give it if he felt the same.

  7. #22
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Rightly so, though. If you don't use a referral, you weren't sure whether it was out, and therefore it's reasonable for the umpire to not give it if he felt the same.
    Which is part of the real beauty of this system. It takes all the pressure off the umpires. It doesn't matter whether you've got a fat legspinner getting all theatrical on you, if he doesn't put his money where his mouth is and refer your "not out" call then it's because he doesn't think it's out. Which means that said fat legspinner's ability to pressurise the umpire is stripped away. No bad thing.

  8. #23
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    I love fat leg-spinners.

  9. #24
    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I love fat leg-spinners.
    Don't really understand this - Zaremba was very clearly giving a hypothetical example that was carefully constructed in order to bear no reference whatsoever to any real cricketer, living or dead.
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  10. #25
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Not seeing the NZ tests ATM. But the dismissal Xuhaib is describing seems to be how Watson got out LBW this morning to Taylor, a bowler who does swing the ball into right-handers.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sean View Post
    Don't really understand this - Zaremba was very clearly giving a hypothetical example that was carefully constructed in order to bear no reference whatsoever to any real cricketer, living or dead.
    I know, but the mention of that very broad and unspecific demographic in society made me feel inclined to point out how much I love them.

  12. #27
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    If any bowler is going to die a death because wickets that shouldn't have given in the first place are taken away he should probably be considering an alternative career anyway.

  13. #28
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sean View Post
    Don't really understand this - Zaremba was very clearly giving a hypothetical example that was carefully constructed in order to bear no reference whatsoever to any real cricketer, living or dead.
    In truth it was purely autobiographical

  14. #29
    International Coach straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    One thing that I reckon it will do is allow commentators to deflect the blame away from umpires for making an initial bad decision, onto players for not referring the decision.
    That's certainly true. Prime example was the lbw on Fulton in the NZ v Pak game. Instead of people lambasting the umpire for missing the inside edge we are calling Fulton a fool for not referring it.

    The referral system as it stands is therefore adding an extra level of decision making & strategy that players have to consider that they did not previously. Fulton made a poor decision but that's where I'm most uneasy about the referral system being set up as a 'player challenge' system. Being astute on which decisions to challenge and which not to is not a skill I expect a cricket player to have - it's really external to the game.

    It's a similar issue with the Windies using up their challenges while batting to try to protect Gayle and Chanderpaul (iirc) - if that really was a deliberate strategy (and not a very good one) then the system is moving beyond the realm of officiating and into the realm of team strategy - similar to field placement, choice of bowlers etc. I guess where this leads is I/we don't ultimately want to see test matches decided by which team employed the best strategy to best utilise their umpiring challenges and which team squandered them.

    All that said, the current implementation of the system is better than nothing IMO, and should hopefully improve over time.

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