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Thread: Your All Time Teams for Every Format (After 1975)

  1. #31
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    That is true, but it's still completely bonkers to pick Procter ahead of Ian Botham considering he was nearly 30 by 1975 and Botham's entire superior career fits within the time frame.
    29 to be exact. He was born sept 15 1946.

    Plus based on what i've read Procter was still at his peak in 1975 up until the end of the 1970s at least. When he took that famous LBW hatricks (which was on youtube once) it was around 1975. This little wikipedia writing sums up that 75/post 75 period of Procter fairly well i think:

    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    He destroyed Worcestershire single handedly in 1977, scoring a century before lunch and taking 13 wickets for just 73 runs. He picked up another century before lunch in 1979, against Leicestershire, winning the Walter Lawrence Trophy for the season's fastest century, and then ripped through their batsmen with a hat-trick for good measure. Procter defied insurmountable odds in the very next game, against Yorkshire, by taking another hat-trick, all trapped leg-before. The potency of his muscular inswinging fast bowling can be seen by the fact that his feat of taking two hat-trick of LBWs is unique in the first class game. He captained them with distinction from 1977 to 1981 and was hugely popular with team mates and supporters alike. He was the Professional Cricketers' Association Player of the Year in 1970 and 1977 and won the Cricket Society Wetherall Award for the Leading All-Rounder in English First-Class Cricket in 1978.

    As captain he led Gloucestershire to the Benson & Hedges Cup in 1977,

    Picking Botham base on his 77-84 performance is definately legitimate. But i prefer Procter since i think potentially if he played test he could have been better. Given he did things FC cricket in then very strong county cricket & currie cup in SA that neither Botham or any of the other great all-rounders did.

  2. #32
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    Plus based on what i've read Procter was still at his peak in 1975 up until the end of the 1970s at least.
    Which means you're picking him on 4 years of hypothetical performances.


    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    Picking Botham base on his 77-84 performance is definately legitimate. But i prefer Procter since i think potentially if he played test he could have been better. Given he did things FC cricket in then very strong county cricket & currie cup in SA that neither Botham or any of the other great all-rounders did.
    Yes he did some good things, prior to 1975, but that's irrelevant to this criteria (a bit like him not actually playing Tests really)
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    29 to be exact. He was born sept 15 1946.

    Plus based on what i've read Procter was still at his peak in 1975 up until the end of the 1970s at least. When he took that famous LBW hatricks (which was on youtube once) it was around 1975. This little wikipedia writing sums up that 75/post 75 period of Procter fairly well i think:




    Picking Botham base on his 77-84 performance is definately legitimate. But i prefer Procter since i think potentially if he played test he could have been better. Given he did things FC cricket in then very strong county cricket & currie cup in SA that neither Botham or any of the other great all-rounders did.
    You don't consider 29 to be nearly 30?

    I saw plenty of Procter in First Class Cricket and that LBW hattrick I saw live on TV. He was an inferior cricketer to Ian Botham however you care to look at it.

    If you do go down that route for selection then Barry Richards should be included as he was a class above Gordon Greenidge.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    McGrath for anyone who loves stats is the perfect bowler. But for me those 3 bowlers including Hadlee based on what i've read (given i never saw any of them bowl live) i would definately put them ahead of Pigeon.

    I certainly believe if Lillee/marshall/Hadlee/Imran had played in this 2000s era of flat decks & small boundaries they had the skills to be equally as effective as Pigeon.
    There is no doubt that Lillee/Marshall/Hadlee/Imran would all have been all time greats in this era. The thing is though that I don't think any of them would have averaged under 23 (well except maybe Marshall). I don't think we will realise how good McGrath actually was until there is more time passed.

    McGrath was the most accurate bowler that any of us are likely to see ever in our lifetimes. He has no holes in his statistical record and performed against every nation in every nation. What's more he did it in an era where literally a dozen batsmen around the world averaged over 50, pitches were at their flattest in decades and roped in boundaries became commonplace.


  5. #35
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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  6. #36
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    There is no doubt that Lillee/Marshall/Hadlee/Imran would all have been all time greats in this era. The thing is though that I don't think any of them would have averaged under 23 (well except maybe Marshall). I don't think we will realise how good McGrath actually was until there is more time passed.

    McGrath was the most accurate bowler that any of us are likely to see ever in our lifetimes. He has no holes in his statistical record and performed against every nation in every nation. What's more he did it in an era where literally a dozen batsmen around the world averaged over 50, pitches were at their flattest in decades and roped in boundaries became commonplace.
    This is a bit of a myth. His record has about as many holes as does Donald or Lillee or many others. Just to give you an idea, he wasn't so flash against S.Africa. Maybe worse than how Donald was against Australia. His record at home to NZ isn't flash either. I picked him over some others almost purely on his longevity, but these guys are all essentially as good as each other.

  7. #37
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    You don't consider 29 to be nearly 30.

    I saw plenty of Procter in First Class Cricket and that LBW hattrick I saw live on TV. He was an inferior cricketer to Ian Botham however you care to look at it..
    Given your are one of the elders around you i very much respect that view. But i have heard other older folks put Procter over Botham.

    Plus looking at the LBW hattrick, i dont think i ever saw any highlights of Botham's bowling performance at his peak that was as lethal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    If you do go down that route for selection then Barry Richards should be included as he was a class above Gordon Greenidge.
    I definately wanted to. But i'd didn't want to pick two such players based on hypotetical performances, since it would have double controversey.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    McGrath for anyone who loves stats is the perfect bowler. But for me those 3 bowlers including Hadlee based on what i've read (given i never saw any of them bowl live) i would definately put them ahead of Pigeon.
    It's not so much the stats that I love as the masses and masses and masses of wickets for ****-all runs.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    Given your are one of the elders around you i very much respect that view. But i have heard other older folks put Procter over Botham.
    Just out of curiousity, how old do you think I am?

  10. #40
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lillian thomson View Post
    just out of curiousity, how old do you think i am?
    30+

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    30+
    Lucky guess.

  12. #42
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Ha you had to be if as you've always claimed, you saw Botham as a peak, that Procter bowling performance live etc etc..

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    Ha you had to be if as you've always claimed, you saw Botham as a peak, that Procter bowling performance live etc etc..
    I was being sarcastic at your stating of the bleeding obvious. When you used the world "elder" I wondered what you consider to be old. If it's anything over 30 then I should point out that when your mother told you if you eat up all your nice vegetables you won't get any older, she was lying.

  14. #44
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Haa no LT no reference to age. By edler i meant you along with SJS, luckie eddie, archie_mac, goughy, bagapth etc. Are among the few blokes on this site that saw great players from the past play live. Thus opinions of them should hold some weight (unless some bias favouritism is involved), over those of us who would have to use stats & highlights to come to a conclusion on past greats.

  15. #45
    Cricket Spectator flyslip's Avatar
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    Tests;

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    Viv Richards
    Sachin Tendulkar
    Brian Lara
    Adam Gilchrist
    Imran Khan
    Shane Warne
    Anil Kumble
    Malcolm Marshall
    Glenn McGrath

    Check out that bowling attack.

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