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What is wrong with the Black Caps??

K

kuranui

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Mccullum is a terrible test batsman, cant control his aggression, and is hopeless against spin.
Guptill should stick to ODI's in my opinion,
mcintosh could turn out to be a solid opener who can wear the bowlers down,
Oram's time looks like its up,
and Tuffey should have defintly played in the last test.

Any one else have an opinion?
 
Howsie

Howsie

International Captain
Haha, there are a number of things wrong with this team at the moment. I agree about Oram though, his time is up. I can't believe that he is actually trying to learn to bat right handed (Something brought up because of 20/20 cricket I spose). Might explain his poor form, I've heard he spends quite abit of time practicing it.

McIntosh will never become anything though, Guptill is far more reliable to come good.
 
P

Polo23

International Debutant
kuranui said:
Mccullum is a terrible test batsman, cant control his aggression, and is hopeless against spin.
Click to expand...
His defensive technique is very poor which is vital when facing spin. He still hasn't found the right tempo for test cricket either (which is pretty poor, considering he's been playing tests for a good 5 years now). He is however a fantastic keeper, so in that regard at least he is doing his job.


kuranui said:
Guptill should stick to ODI's in my opinion,
Click to expand...
Rubbish. Guptill is EASILY the most gifted opener we have in NZ. He should be persevered with, he is obviously only going to get better (he's still only 22!). Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka against the highest wicket taker in test history in his debut away tour was always going to be tough. He's looked very very good in patches, good enough to keep me optimistic about the future anyway. Also, even if he were to be dropped, who the hell is going to replace him?

kuranui said:
mcintosh could turn out to be a solid opener who can wear the bowlers down
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Unsure why you think Guptill should be dropped, but McIntosh should stay. McIntosh has scored 81 runs @ 20.25 this tour whereas Guptill has scored 105 @ 26.25. Not to mention the runs Guptill has scored have come in style with elegant looking strokes whereas McIntosh has looked totally out of his depth.

kuranui said:
Oram's time looks like its up
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Oram's bowling is toothless and he can't play spin. He was destined for failure on this tour, and it isn't surprising that is exactly what has happened. It wouldn't bother me if he was dropped, but then again i'm not convinced Franklin is up to test cricket with either bat or ball yet.

kuranui said:
Tuffey should have defintly played in the last test.
Click to expand...
It would have been nice to see big Daryl get a run, i'm really interested to see what kind of pace he is bowling.
 
straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Craig said:
How much is a attitude of team's performances? A lot IMO.
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Yes a lot, but a lot of that attitude was instilled during the Bracewell era* when we valued ODIs far higher than tests. We played a ridiculously small number of tests during the later years of that time, up to the last ODI world cup. Fortunately playing a few more now. Combine that with the natural end of a generation of players, and the mismanagement of some of this + the ICL leading to a bigger loss of players than should have been necessary. Now we're in recovery/ rebuild mode and since we have a smaller pool of players than most countries we're particularly poor during this period. Our top 6 are simply immature - look at their ages.

Has all been said before (as Flem points out).

* 'Bracewell era' doesn't necessarily mean it was all Bracewell's fault. Can't say I know enough to go apportioning blame.
 
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SJS

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
kuranui said:
Mccullum is a terrible test batsman, cant control his aggression, and is hopeless against spin.
Guptill should stick to ODI's in my opinion,
mcintosh could turn out to be a solid opener who can wear the bowlers down,
Oram's time looks like its up,
and Tuffey should have defintly played in the last test.

Any one else have an opinion?
Click to expand...
This is nothing new. New Zealand has always had a problem with producing a number of world class performers at the same time. This is not to berate the Kiwis but perhaps reflects on the way the domestic cricket is run, the lack of incentive for a larger number of young men to make a career from the game thereby reducing the talent pool and so on But with few exceptions NZL have struggled to put up a side that has challenged the top teams consistently.

One is not familiar with the New Zealand structure but its clear that they find it difficult to attract and then hold on to youngsters who want to play the game. Add that to the small population to start with and the problem is endemic.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
SJS said:
This is nothing new. New Zealand has always had a problem with producing a number of world class performers at the same time. This is not to berate the Kiwis but perhaps reflects on the way the domestic cricket is run, the lack of incentive for a larger number of young men to make a career from the game thereby reducing the talent pool and so on But with few exceptions NZL have struggled to put up a side that has challenged the top teams consistently.

One is not familiar with the New Zealand structure but its clear that they find it difficult to attract and then hold on to youngsters who want to play the game. Add that to the small population to start with and the problem is endemic.
Click to expand...
The difference is though we've shown we're quite capable of kicking butt when the brain is engaged. this is in stark contrast to the pre-80s when we had plenty of fight but no natural ability.

This team is the opposite. Probably the only batting line up we've fielded since Suttcliffe, Donnelly and Reid that we can say has the potential to be world class. Add to that a developing bowling attack that will be strengthened by promotions/recalls to the squad of Franklin, Bond, Tuffey, Wagner, Southee, Boult etc. The U-19s are cashing in in FC cricket as well.

In short, we don't lack ability ,we lack intelligence. Lots of intelligence. Precisely the opposite of most of our history.

Small population doesnt worry me much tbh, if population was such a large factor, India and England would have dominated test cricket its entire history and Australia and the West Indies would never have had a look in. Our younger players are being coached well as well judging by how the younger domestic players are ending up the best ones, no, the problem is engaging the brain.

Once this team engages its brain and follows their captains example, we'll see improvement.
 
SJS

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Flem274* said:
The difference is though we've shown we're quite capable of kicking butt when the brain is engaged. this is in stark contrast to the pre-80s when we had plenty of fight but no natural ability.

This team is the opposite. Probably the only batting line up we've fielded since Suttcliffe, Donnelly and Reid that we can say has the potential to be world class. Add to that a developing bowling attack that will be strengthened by promotions/recalls to the squad of Franklin, Bond, Tuffey, Wagner, Southee, Boult etc. The U-19s are cashing in in FC cricket as well.

In short, we don't lack ability ,we lack intelligence. Lots of intelligence. Precisely the opposite of most of our history.

Small population doesnt worry me much tbh, if population was such a large factor, India and England would have dominated test cricket its entire history and Australia and the West Indies would never have had a look in. Our younger players are being coached well as well judging by how the younger domestic players are ending up the best ones, no, the problem is engaging the brain.

Once this team engages its brain and follows their captains example, we'll see improvement.
Click to expand...
The examples of England and West Indies are not exactly accurate. England has a good structure (with all its issues) and a cricket career is a very paying one (as long as one doesn't start comparing with India). In the West Indies, cricket was the only game that fed their passion and the social structure was such that one didn't end up making much greater money in alternate careers except a few. They are still suffering from lack of sufficient interest in the game and it is showing in the quality of their first class game and also on their Test strengths.

Now that the game is losing its popularity and the young are finding other things to do, their dominance is over.
 
D

DingDong

State Captain
There's nothing wrong with NZ. India has a population of 1 billion, which is like more than 300 times the population of NZ and their favourite sport is cricket but can their A team beat us? I doubt it. Their first 11 struggled to beat us for a long time in NZ as well.

NZ are punching well above their weight. It's teams like India and Pakistan who should improve.
 
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