Atul Sharma

[oitoitoi]

If the selectors weren't ****-for-brains, they'd use the FC system for that and reform it as necessary if it isn't providing that to their liking.

I think the FC system in India is actually pretty good, it's just that no one pays any attention to it...

 

[oitoitoi]

Manpreet Gony wasn't actually that good in the IPL, he just somehow gave the impression that he was. A bit like Pragyan Ojha and Yo Mahesh did.

Exactly. Gony was mediocre but the electronic media made him out to be amazing (they needed an Indian hero, the Aussies were stealing all the headlines), unfortunately the selectors seemed to lap it up (or perhaps they were being pressured by the IPL to give the tournament more credibility). In fairness to Ojha he'd been raising eyebrow with his performances in FC cricket.

 

[Jono]

If the selectors weren't ****-for-brains, they'd use the FC system for that and reform it as necessary if it isn't providing that to their liking.

I didn't realise the world watched Indian FC cricket, and in Indian FC cricket you could bowl to world class batsman.

 

[oitoitoi]

I didn't realise the world watched Indian FC cricket, and in Indian FC cricket you could bowl to world class batsman.

?

What do you mean? Is that sarcasm? Really, I can't tell.

Indian FC cricket is good in it's structure but is let down by the surfaces. They used to be spinners' paradises, in an effort to make them more pace friendly they've let the grass grow which has only really caused a profliferation of medium pacers. They need to get more pace and bounce on the first 2 days and then for the pitch to really spit and turn fast towards the end. I'm also not sure about the knock out rule over whoever scores the most in the 1st innings wins in the event of a draw. The Duleep Trophy is a fantastic idea though, especially now when you're getting the likes of Dravid and Laxman taking part.

 

[silentstriker]

I didn't realise the world watched Indian FC cricket,

Irrelevant who watches it - the purpose should be to put out the best quality international side.

and in Indian FC cricket you could bowl to world class batsman.

If the selectors think that's an issue, then that's a problem that should be fixed by having overseas players and paying them a good amount to play with FC sides.

And regardless of that, 24 ball hit and giggle tells me absolutely nothing about a bowler's Test class. Look, I'm a big fan of the IPL and I think it's good for cricket and serves a purpose. But it should not be made into something it is not - namely a pseudoreplacement for First Class system where a bowler who bowls 24 deliveries a match for a month is somehow seen as a better Test prospect than a guy who spends weeks and months and years toiling and getting wickets in FC cricket. India already does that with U-19s way too much, and we end up with ****bags like Yuvraj Singh as a result. If you feel the FC system is not preparing the players enough, then you need to address that instead of trying to replace it with formats which really tell you very little about long term viability of players in the real format.

While I appreciate the massive variations in T20 cricket which include the slower ball, the even slower ball, the even more slower ball, and the slowest ball, it doesn't test and reward the same bowling skills as Test match cricket.

 

[Jono]

?

What do you mean? Is that sarcasm? Really, I can't tell.

Indian FC cricket is good in it's structure but is let down by the surfaces. They used to be spinners' paradises, in an effort to make them more pace friendly they've let the grass grow which has only really caused a profliferation of medium pacers. They need to get more pace and bounce on the first 2 days and then for the pitch to really spit and turn fast towards the end. I'm also not sure about the knock out rule over whoever scores the most in the 1st innings wins in the event of a draw. The Duleep Trophy is a fantastic idea though, especially now when you're getting the likes of Dravid and Laxman taking part.

It was sarcasm, but not aimed at your post.

I don't love the IPL, but SS' suggestion that simply having young players playing FC cricket will allow them the opportunities to learn and develop their game exactly like the IPL provides is inaccurate.

Look at Younis Pathan, Ojha, Gony etc. who have come out of the tournament.

Irrelevant who watches it - the purpose should be to put out the best quality international side.



If the selectors think that's an issue, then that's a problem that should be fixed by having overseas players and paying them a good amount to play with FC sides.

And regardless of that, 24 ball hit and giggle tells me absolutely nothing about a bowler's Test class. Look, I'm a big fan of the IPL and I think it's good for cricket and serves a purpose. But it should not be made into something it is not - namely a pseudoreplacement for First Class system where a bowler who bowls 24 deliveries a match for a month is somehow seen as a better Test prospect than a guy who spends weeks and months and years toiling and getting wickets in FC cricket. India already does that with U-19s way too much, and we end up with ****bags like Yuvraj Singh as a result. If you feel the FC system is not preparing the players enough, then you need to address that instead of trying to replace it with formats which really tell you very little about long term viability of players in the real format.

While I appreciate the massive variations in T20 cricket which include the slower ball, the even slower ball, the even more slower ball, and the slowest ball, it doesn't test and reward the same bowling skills as Test match cricket.

No one is saying it should be a replacement.

But you shouldn't underestimate what playing in front of huge crowds, with an international audience means for players. It can test their temperament and ability to handle pressure better than an FC match on a flat deck in front of a couple of guys and their cow.

 

[silentstriker]

But you shouldn't underestimate what playing in front of huge crowds, with an international audience means for players. It can test their temperament and ability to handle pressure better than an FC match on a flat deck in front of a couple of guys and their cow.

There is no pressure because people know performances in FC cricket matter less than U-19 and now T20. County Cricket is the gold standard of professional cricket for foreign players, and it's a great finishing school on honing your skills and becoming an international class players, yet the crowds are also sparse there. But virtually everyone who does a stint there is a better player for it.

On the other hand, I don't really care if my fast bowler can bowl seven slower balls but takes no wickets. You're retarding their skills by making them play in a format which rewards different skills for success. It's why many spinners shouldn't start off bowling in ODIs, it inevitably makes them flatter.

Frankly, this whole business of 'pressure' is overrated. You need skills first, and you need to hone them. If you are a skilled person who knows your game inside and out through a tough FC grind, I'd back you to perform better than a newbie with a few T20 wickets, I don't care how many people were watching when you got them.

And no, I don't think anything in T20 or OD tests your temperament anywhere near as much as proper four-five day cricket game. As a bowler, or as a batsman. Again, if you have a problem with FC pitches, fix is pretty straightforward. If you want more international stars, the fix is more costly but certainly doable. By having a system that in effect bypasses the FC system results in cricketers with ******** temperaments and blunted skills - players who don't know their game and can't adapt when the pressure is truly on. Just because you can smack a few around the ground, or bowl a couple overs doesn't mean you know anything about proper temperament of a long innings, or how to go about batting from behind. Or how to come back spell after spell even if you got carted in your first. Or adapting your game constantly session by session to the ebb and flow of the game when your body is tired.

 

[adharcric]

Definitely agree with SS here.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Murali looks like he chucks in slow-mo though and he doesn't.

Yeah right....

You DO know there's a reason they had to change the chucking rules - his name is Murali.

So, technically he doesn't chuck under the laws (which are now so loose it's hard to chuck!)

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah right....

You DO know there's a reason they had to change the chucking rules - his name is Murali.

So, technically he doesn't chuck under the laws (which are now so loose it's hard to chuck!)

Also, they figured out McGrath and Gillespie chuck too... So if the rule hadn't been changed, they should have been banned from bowling as well.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Yeah right....

You DO know there's a reason they had to change the chucking rules - his name is Murali.

So, technically he doesn't chuck under the laws (which are now so loose it's hard to chuck!)

We don't need to go through this all again.

 

[Cricket_God]

It also creates a lot of false hope and can create a huge overestimation of a players ability. It shows you how a player can perform in a very specific role, in specific condtions against a less than international standard opposition over a very small time period. A prime example was Manpreet Gony, did ok in the IPL and was given an international spot where he was clearly shown up to be a million miles off international standard (wicketless vs Hong Kong, slapped around by Bangladesh). Shaun Marsh despite top scoring went on to have a relatively poor season in Australia (though he hit some steady 50's for the national side) and still doesn't look anything like a test quality player (unusual considering his role as an innings builder at the top of the order). In fact the only players who have had success at international level thereafter were already pressing for places through their first class performances anyway (e.g. Gambhir, Yusuf Pathan, Raina).

It seems you did not watch the asia cup,the pitches were as flat as one can get,everybody
got hammered,its unfair on gony .

 

[Cricket_God]

Steyn's average speed against the Australians (test series home) was 142kph. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

And Malinga also in the test series against New Zealand bowled on average 145kph and his top speeds were over 150kph, close to 155kph.

Steyn average speed was not 142 km/h in the whole test series but in the third test,Malinga
clocked 145 in nz many years back,afetr that he has been rarley bowling at those speeds
in srilanka,

 

[TT Boy]

Steyn average speed was not 142 km/h in the whole test series but in the third test,Malinga
clocked 145 in nz many years back,afetr that he has been rarley bowling at those speeds
in srilanka,

It was.

As for Malinga, go dig up the New Zealand Sri Lankan test series on Cricinfo, read the commentary and doubtlessly they will tell you how quick Malinga was bowling. It was rapid and as I said previously, he touched 155kph on a few occasions and regularly hit 150kph. In comparison, Shane Bond was bowling at around 140-45kph. Malinga was doing people with sheer pace in that series and made the likes of Sinclair look silly. It was an awesome display of fast bowling.

 

[Cricket_God]

It was.

As for Malinga, go dig up the New Zealand Sri Lankan test series on Cricinfo, read the commentary and doubtlessly they will tell you how quick Malinga was bowling. It was rapid and as I said previously, he touched 155kph on a few occasions and regularly hit 150kph. In comparison, Shane Bond was bowling at around 140-45kph. Malinga was doing people with sheer pace in that series and made the likes of Sinclair look silly. It was an awesome display of fast bowling.

Show some proof or go watch the series on youtube,malinga when he bowled in srilanka
clocked 130-145 you can check it out.

 

[TT Boy]

I’m not talking about in Sri Lanka. You said Malinga isn’t quick; I then gave you an example of Malinga bowling quick. Stop moving the goal posts.

 

[Cricket_God]

I’m not talking about in Sri Lanka. You said Malinga isn’t quick; I then gave you an example of Malinga bowling quick. Stop moving the goal posts.

You are talking about 2 years back,in his last test series in australia he averaged around 130-145,most test fast bowlers except johnson bowl at 130-145 km/h in most matches in a season and they might increase their speed in some matches if their is some juice in the pitch.My point is for you to be called express you have to be 145-155 km/h atleast a season which currently no bowler is.

 

[Jono]

There is no pressure because people know performances in FC cricket matter less than U-19 and now T20. County Cricket is the gold standard of professional cricket for foreign players, and it's a great finishing school on honing your skills and becoming an international class players, yet the crowds are also sparse there. But virtually everyone who does a stint there is a better player for it.

On the other hand, I don't really care if my fast bowler can bowl seven slower balls but takes no wickets. You're retarding their skills by making them play in a format which rewards different skills for success. It's why many spinners shouldn't start off bowling in ODIs, it inevitably makes them flatter.

Frankly, this whole business of 'pressure' is overrated. You need skills first, and you need to hone them. If you are a skilled person who knows your game inside and out through a tough FC grind, I'd back you to perform better than a newbie with a few T20 wickets, I don't care how many people were watching when you got them.

And no, I don't think anything in T20 or OD tests your temperament anywhere near as much as proper four-five day cricket game. As a bowler, or as a batsman. Again, if you have a problem with FC pitches, fix is pretty straightforward. If you want more international stars, the fix is more costly but certainly doable. By having a system that in effect bypasses the FC system results in cricketers with ******** temperaments and blunted skills - players who don't know their game and can't adapt when the pressure is truly on. Just because you can smack a few around the ground, or bowl a couple overs doesn't mean you know anything about proper temperament of a long innings, or how to go about batting from behind. Or how to come back spell after spell even if you got carted in your first. Or adapting your game constantly session by session to the ebb and flow of the game when your body is tired.

You're twisting my words though.

I don't have time to reply properly right now, but no where in my original statement did I state that the skills honed from FC cricket are useless. Just that the IPL serves a purpose for Indian domestic players that FC cricket cannot fill.

Add both, and theoretically, you have a good system.

 

[Lambu]

Anyone else find it interesting that ATul has not been axed from the final squad in SA?

 

[silentstriker]

I don't have time to reply properly right now, but no where in my original statement did I state that the skills honed from FC cricket are useless. Just that the IPL serves a purpose for Indian domestic players that FC cricket cannot fill..

For Test cricket? What purpose is that?