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Thread: West Indies and Australia - Comparing The Dynasties

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    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
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    West Indies and Australia - Comparing The Dynasties

    An interesting article I saw on Cricinfo today - a lengthy read but worth it in my opinion. Some interesting and thoughtful analysis, and some mouth-watering hypothetical match-ups at the bottom.

    http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/magaz...ry/385569.html
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    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    The West Indian Cricketing Dynasty
    by Percy Bysshe Shelley


    I met a traveller from an antique land
    Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
    And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mock'd them and the heart that fed.
    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    "My name is Windies Cricket, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
    Nothing beside remains: round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The West Indian Cricketing Dynasty
    by Percy Bysshe Shelley


    I met a traveller from an antique land
    Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
    And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mock'd them and the heart that fed.
    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    "My name is Windies Cricket, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
    Nothing beside remains: round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.
    Random.
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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Interesting article. I think all you can say about the contest between the "Best of Windies late 70s-80s" team and a "Best of Australia late 90s-00s" team is that it would be an absolute cracker.

    Greenidge, Haynes, Richards, Lara, Lloyd, Richardson, Dujon, Marshall, Holding, Ambrose, Garner

    vs

    Hayden, Langer, Ponting, M.Waugh, S.Waugh, Martyn, Gilchrist, Warne, Lee/Fleming/Kasprowicz, Gillespie, McGrath
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    International Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Interesting article. I think all you can say about the contest between the "Best of Windies late 70s-80s" team and a "Best of Australia late 90s-00s" team is that it would be an absolute cracker.

    Greenidge, Haynes, Richards, Lara, Lloyd, Richardson, Dujon, Marshall, Holding, Ambrose, Garner

    vs

    Hayden, Langer, Ponting, M.Waugh, S.Waugh, Martyn, Gilchrist, Warne, Lee/Fleming/Kasprowicz, Gillespie, McGrath
    I would bring in mcdermott or reid to bowl with mcgrath, warne and gillespie. i also like mark taylor more than langer.
    Last edited by bagapath; 09-01-2009 at 08:02 AM.

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    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    I would bring in mcdermottor reid to bowl with mcgrath, warne and gillespie. i also like mark taylor more than langer.
    The Australian XI is for the period starting in WI in 95 though. McDermott was all but finished by then and Reid had already played his last Test. Taylor is the only debatable one and many would argue his best years as a batsman were behind him.

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    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Interesting article. I think all you can say about the contest between the "Best of Windies late 70s-80s" team and a "Best of Australia late 90s-00s" team is that it would be an absolute cracker.

    Greenidge, Haynes, Richards, Lara, Lloyd, Richardson, Dujon, Marshall, Holding, Ambrose, Garner

    vs

    Hayden, Langer, Ponting, M.Waugh, S.Waugh, Martyn, Gilchrist, Warne, Lee/Fleming/Kasprowicz, Gillespie, McGrath
    It'd be a cracker indeed. But I don't think Lara would qualify as he was from a slightly later era. Anyhow with or without Lara I think I prefer the Windies bowling (just) and the Australian batting (just).

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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Think both sides have better bowling attacks than batting line ups tbh... I'd say the Aussies bowling is stronger than the Windies batting, esp. if Lara isn't in.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    It'd be a cracker indeed. But I don't think Lara would qualify as he was from a slightly later era. Anyhow with or without Lara I think I prefer the Windies bowling (just) and the Australian batting (just).
    Yeah, nor would Ambrose TBH. Ambrose debuted after and Lara long after West Indies' invincibility was finished.

    West Indies' was between '76 and '86; Australia's was between '89 and '06/07. West Indies were more invincible - far more - than Australia were, but Australia kept-up their near-invincibility for quite a bit longer.

    (I won't mention the fact that I'd absolutely love to see what West Indies' bowlers and batsmen would do to Hayden, Martyn and Lee, obviously...)
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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Australia were certainly not a dominant number 1 team from '89 onwards.

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    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post

    (I won't mention the fact that I'd absolutely love to see what West Indies' bowlers and batsmen would do to Hayden, Martyn and Lee, obviously...)
    Worst non-mentioning ever. It was the mentioning part that let you down.

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    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Yeah, nor would Ambrose TBH. Ambrose debuted after and Lara long after West Indies' invincibility was finished.

    West Indies' was between '76 and '86; Australia's was between '89 and '06/07. West Indies were more invincible - far more - than Australia were, but Australia kept-up their near-invincibility for quite a bit longer.

    (I won't mention the fact that I'd absolutely love to see what West Indies' bowlers and batsmen would do to Hayden, Martyn and Lee, obviously...)
    CBF to do the research but my recollection was that the Windies were pretty invincible in the late 80s too. Certainly when they came to England in 1988 with a team which included Ambrose (and a young Ian Bishop in the squad showing that the production line was still working) there was no sense that this team was vulnerable or in decline. And they duly exterminated England in the Tests.

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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Yeah, they munted the Aussies in 88 as well, showing that the 87 WC was, if not a false dawn, not quite the commencement of a new era just yet either.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    West Indies weren't beaten between '86/87 and '91, no, but a) they could've been very easily and b) they were only good at thrashing the rubbish teams (like England, who were in '88 at their lowest ebb ever, and Australia, who in '88/89 were still exceptionally weak and not yet on the road up in Test matches, which would begin in the '89 Ashes). Against the stronger teams (Pakistan; New Zealand; and India in India) they were no longer capable of winning. Holding and Garner were basically gone after the 1986 Blackwash, and said series marked the high-tide of Caribbean dominance. After that, it was a gradual retreat.

    West Indies between '76 and '86 were notably different to West Indies between '86/87 and '97/98. The latter team was damn good, but the former was virtually unbeatable in a Test, by even the second-best, never mind a series.

    The only time anyone really stood toe-to-toe with West Indies in the '76 to '86 decade was Australia in '81/82, when Dennis Lillee and Kim Hughes produced their greatest performances to win a Test. New Zealand did so in '79/80 with, it's apparently accepted, the considerable help of their own Umpires. It's difficult to conceive there's ever been a side who ever came closer to essentially having victory guaranteed before they stepped onto the park for so long.
    Last edited by Richard; 09-01-2009 at 08:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    The only time anyone really stood toe-to-toe with West Indies in the '76 to '86 decade was Australia in '81/82, when Dennis Lillee produced his greatest performance to win a Test. New Zealand did so in '79/80 with, it's apparently accepted, the considerable help of their own Umpires.
    As did Kim Hughes.

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