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Thread: NZ talent not being used?

  1. #1
    U19 Debutant krishneelz's Avatar
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    NZ talent not being used?

    Just take a look at some of these batsmen in New Zealand

    Johann Myburgh Batting Average=43, 100s=8, 50s=23
    Greg Hay Batting Average=49, 100s=3, 50s=6
    Jesse Ryder Batting Average=42, 100s=5, 50s=13
    Neil Broom Batting Average=38, 100s=4, 50s=11
    Greg Todd Batting Average=37, 100s=4, 50s=9
    Neal Parlane Batting Average=38, 100s=8, 50s=22

    Considering media is saying NZ future is now. The current squad does not include any of these fellas, im worried about what hadlee and co are doing? I know stats are not everything but atleast Myburgh, Ryder and Parlane should have a shot rather than Marshall, Flynn and Redmond in the test squad
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  2. #2
    Not Terrible Athlai's Avatar
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    Parlane is a domestic dominator that is every bit as deserving to get into the team as James Marshall.

    While, Ryder and Hay are both in the team or thereabouts.

    Myburgh is a South African I believe and currently he'd need a couple more seasons here before I think he'd be considered.

    Flynn and Redmond are young talented blokes.

    No problem with it really.

    Reckon we're selecting some of the best options for the job which is rather unusual for NZ cricket selectors.
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    Hall of Fame Member HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Pretty much with Athers on this one. Except that Marshall doesn't deserve to be anywhere near an international team - despite what ND lovers will say. Parlane is even further from the team.

    Ryder's injured else he'd be there.
    Myburgh's a Yarpie and wouldn't even be in NZ if it wasn't for Dave Nosworthy being coach (and seemingly a very decent coach given how the younguns have done at Canterbury this year). There was even talk that Myburgh was heading back to RSA and the Dolphins franchise.
    Hay, Broom and Todd are all being talked about, but need a few more games behind them to really establish their claims. Its odd, to some extend, that Flynn has been 'fast-tracked' ahead of Hay, but I have no great problem with that.
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    International Debutant Natman20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    Pretty much with Athers on this one. Except that Marshall doesn't deserve to be anywhere near an international team - despite what ND lovers will say. Parlane is even further from the team.

    Ryder's injured else he'd be there.
    Myburgh's a Yarpie and wouldn't even be in NZ if it wasn't for Dave Nosworthy being coach (and seemingly a very decent coach given how the younguns have done at Canterbury this year). There was even talk that Myburgh was heading back to RSA and the Dolphins franchise.
    Hay, Broom and Todd are all being talked about, but need a few more games behind them to really establish their claims. Its odd, to some extend, that Flynn has been 'fast-tracked' ahead of Hay, but I have no great problem with that.
    I have never been a fan of James Marshall but his consistency and domination in first-class cricket means he deserves another go. I don't agree with Flynn. He hasn't really shown any signs to me that would mean he would succeed at international level.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Natman20 View Post
    I have never been a fan of James Marshall but his consistency and domination in first-class cricket means he deserves another go. I don't agree with Flynn. He hasn't really shown any signs to me that would mean he would succeed at international level.
    And that's the rub, isn't it? There are players from all countries who have not done what had been hoped at international level, and have been dropped only to do all that is asked of them at FC level, or more.

    In those cases, and unless they are over the hill but still scoring runs, you really have to give them another go if a place is available don't you, or else you're losing faith in your own FC system?
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    State 12th Man sportychic33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natman20 View Post
    I have never been a fan of James Marshall but his consistency and domination in first-class cricket means he deserves another go. I don't agree with Flynn. He hasn't really shown any signs to me that would mean he would succeed at international level.
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    Marshall never really got a chance with Hamish being the favoured twin despite his superior record. Marshall could be successful in the team with his first class experience and the fact that he should by now really know his game. In his test for NZ earlier on he player predominantly as an opener, should be interesting to see how he goes in the middle order. If he is successful in the team now it would be good as it gives balance in between the 'power' players such as Taylor and Oram.
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    Agreed with everything sportychic33's sentiments about Marshall. I do not understand where the James Marshall hate comes from.

    If you want to attack a selection that is suspect, try Fulton. He's there with no form behind him, his last innings just crept over double digits before succumbing to Elliot with a top edge soft dismissal, and he hasn't past double digits since a month ago in batting terms.

    That's a huge call.

    Flynn > Hay because Hay let the pressure of selection get to him during the last CD v ND game. Not to mention in that same game Flynn scored his 6th ton of the season in both FC and List A games.

    The kid can play, and he has been playing for 4 seasons, while Hay has only really just finished his FC apprenticeship with two.

    Flynn also has leadership skills at a young age as he was the captain of the 2004 U19s side.

    So he definitely deserves his shot, and if he doesn't work out, Hay is the next guy in for the next summer.

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  8. #8
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie1 View Post
    Agreed with everything sportychic33's sentiments about Marshall. I do not understand where the James Marshall hate comes from.

    If you want to attack a selection that is suspect, try Fulton. He's there with no form behind him, his last innings just crept over double digits before succumbing to Elliot with a top edge soft dismissal, and he hasn't past double digits since a month ago in batting terms.

    That's a huge call.

    Flynn > Hay because Hay let the pressure of selection get to him during the last CD v ND game. Not to mention in that same game Flynn scored his 6th ton of the season in both FC and List A games.

    The kid can play, and he has been playing for 4 seasons, while Hay has only really just finished his FC apprenticeship with two.

    Flynn also has leadership skills at a young age as he was the captain of the 2004 U19s side.

    So he definitely deserves his shot, and if he doesn't work out, Hay is the next guy in for the next summer.

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    Fulton in a nutshell=class, out of form, we know he has what it takes.

    The thing with him is we know he's got the goods and I have no problem with the selectors showing faith in his ability, I rate him as much as I rate Fleming. I don't want to see Fulton above four or five from now on though unless he does some more work with Mark O'Neill on his technique.

    A few people may have forgotten but last season the main duo saving our butts in ODIs (we dd\isn't play tests then) was Taylor and Fulton. In the WC it was Styris and Fulton. Remember his weakness against the short ball? He developed a cracking pull shot, he's improved immensely from the player he was a few years ago, and once he's back in form I'm sure we won't regret the selectors showing faith.

    Now, Greg Hay vs Daniel Flynn

    Greg Hay is a highly talented young batsman with a couple of flaws pointed out by that cursed ND coach. However flaws can be worked on and I'm confident he'll improve. Jufging his mental strength on one match is completely unfair. On that basis I could say Bond was mentally soft because of his effort in the WC semi when we know it takes a hard man to come back from injury all those times.

    Flynn has had one good season and three crap ones, IMO I think he may be a bit undercooked. Personally I would have chosen both Flynn and Hay for the tour as they are both talented young men that will be a bit of a gamble, but like Ryder they both have the ability to make the gamble come off. We're at a stage where the side is an unknown quantity and I view the tour matches as lessons and the tests exams for our side. Getting smashed in all tests=N/A, competing=Achieved, sneaking a test=Merit and winning the thing=Excellence. (Like my NCEA marking? ).

    As for Marshall I have no idea. he used to be crap at FC and logically crap at tests, now he's good at FC and has a proper technique from what I hear so I'm ****ed if I know what he'll do. I'd like him to be solid (average around 35) until we can get our hands on Myburgh or one of the other talents steps up to number 3. Obviously I'll be stoked (and in shock) if he has a highly successful career. Its not entirely out of the equation, since getting his technique in order Jamie How has improved out of sight, mainly in the one day game though but still, progress is progress.
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    Stick and stones with Fulton.

    With his form, and while other batsmen were scoring tons over the weekend, he still gets the first look in for the trip to England. What does that say about preferential treatment over 'established tried before' players?

    Class is one thing, but I sure hope we don't carry him like we did with Bell and Sinclair.

    It's bloody ridiculous, and I prefer to see in form batsmen domestically test their form out in the first test, rather than hold them back for Fulton. I'm still mad he can't score a 40+ in the last 3 FC game, given his ability. I hate for him to turn into a Sinclair.

    Another issue is, by the time we realize Fulton is REALLY out of nick, and we piss around with getting Flynn or Redmond into the side, they would have lost a bit of momentum with their batting. And really, when you're new at the scene, the only thing you can count on, especially batting, is your momentum carried into the test.

    Look at what momentum did for Black Caps in the first test.

  10. #10
    State Vice-Captain Retox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie1 View Post
    Stick and stones with Fulton.

    With his form, and while other batsmen were scoring tons over the weekend, he still gets the first look in for the trip to England. What does that say about preferential treatment over 'established tried before' players?

    Class is one thing, but I sure hope we don't carry him like we did with Bell and Sinclair.

    It's bloody ridiculous, and I prefer to see in form batsmen domestically test their form out in the first test, rather than hold them back for Fulton. I'm still mad he can't score a 40+ in the last 3 FC game, given his ability. I hate for him to turn into a Sinclair.

    Another issue is, by the time we realize Fulton is REALLY out of nick, and we piss around with getting Flynn or Redmond into the side, they would have lost a bit of momentum with their batting. And really, when you're new at the scene, the only thing you can count on, especially batting, is your momentum carried into the test.

    Look at what momentum did for Black Caps in the first test.

    No offence but if I feel that no matter what you would always take a ND player over a non ND player. So I choose to take what you say with a grain of salt.
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    None taken Retox, feel free to label me ND biased to the hardest core.

    Mind you I still do not like Vettori being captain, and that's just sour grapes from Fleming being dropped as one, but we won't open that can of worms again.

  12. #12
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    Yes Hay has a higher average than Flynn, but that's largely due to the fact that Hay delayed entering FC cricket until he was 22, Flynn's current age. Flynn, on the other hand, entered the ND side at the first opportunity (when he was 19) and struggled to handle the step up before he his game and technique had fully matured.

    A couple of things to note from this besides the obvious. Firstly, those who say we can do without another dasher should look at Flynn's strike rate. It's actually lower than Hay's. So yes, in OD's Flynn is a hard hitting top order batsman, but that isn't the only facet of his game. He isn't a one speed player like McCullum or Ryder, and can clearly pull it back when he needs to.

    Secondly, Hay has hit plenty of runs this season, but his figures have been massaged by several performances on the McClean park tarmac. Both of his hundreds were scored there (the first of which was followed by a 250 from Mathew Bell, the second was followed by a 4th innings run chase of 340 which was achieved for the loss of one wicket). While I wouldn't go so far as to label Hay a flat track bully, he certainly has benefited from some forgiving batting conditions.

    Flynn on the other hand has been consistent throughout the season on a variety of different surfaces. In one match on a seamer's paradise at Auckland, he scored 60* in a first innings score of 169, and 23 in a second innings score of 101. And then there's the fact that he both averages more than Hay, has scored more runs than him and made more hundreds.

    So yes, Hay might have reason to be disappointed, but at the same time I don't think everyone should be too suprised over the decision to take Flynn instead.

  13. #13
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    Yes Hay has a higher average than Flynn, but that's largely due to the fact that Hay delayed entering FC cricket until he was 22, Flynn's current age. Flynn, on the other hand, entered the ND side at the first opportunity (when he was 19) and struggled to handle the step up before he his game and technique had fully matured.

    A couple of things to note from this besides the obvious. Firstly, those who say we can do without another dasher should look at Flynn's strike rate. It's actually lower than Hay's. So yes, in OD's Flynn is a hard hitting top order batsman, but that isn't the only facet of his game. He isn't a one speed player like McCullum or Ryder, and can clearly pull it back when he needs to.

    Secondly, Hay has hit plenty of runs this season, but his figures have been massaged by several performances on the McClean park tarmac. Both of his hundreds were scored there (the first of which was followed by a 250 from Mathew Bell, the second was followed by a 4th innings run chase of 340 which was achieved for the loss of one wicket). While I wouldn't go so far as to label Hay a flat track bully, he certainly has benefited from some forgiving batting conditions.

    Flynn on the other hand has been consistent throughout the season on a variety of different surfaces. In one match on a seamer's paradise at Auckland, he scored 60* in a first innings score of 169, and 23 in a second innings score of 101. And then there's the fact that he both averages more than Hay, has scored more runs than him and made more hundreds.

    So yes, Hay might have reason to be disappointed, but at the same time I don't think everyone should be too suprised over the decision to take Flynn instead.
    IMO Flynn and Hay are about even. As for Hay getting to bat at McClean Park, boohoo so he's scored runs there, in that case lets kick Taylor, Oram and How our of the team as well because they get to bat there often. McClean Park cops too much stick IMO, especially when there's minefields like the Uni Oval in the early season and no one criticizes the bowlers that dominate there. Also Arnels 10-fer shows it is actualy possible to bowl extremely well at McClean Park, Michael Mason plays alot of games there and he still dominates FC cricket.

    Hay IIRC scored a couple of nineties in a FC game on a minefield so yes, if you'd labelled him a FTB I would have breathed flames at you.

    You could argue that Flynns greater experience has been the reason he's had a good season, and you could also say that Hay is closer to being the finished product as he's come in and scored big runs from the start.

    And I'm not sure even Leslie would gloat about Flynn scoring 23, even if it was in a total of 101.

    As I said, I would have taken both as they cannot really be seperated. Neither has totally covinced me so seeing them go head to head in the tour matches would have been a reasonable indicator of who was better at this current stage and who has adapted to England better.

  14. #14
    Hall of Fame Member HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie1 View Post
    ...feel free to label me ND biased to the hardest core.
    There's bias, and then there's badly judged bias. We'll see if you start suggesting Joey Yovich as a replacement for the 'out of form' Oram.

    As for Jimmy Marshall, he's cut from the same cloth as that green-dyed Irishman Hamish Marshall. Put him in the team for five minutes and see him jump on the happy ship to the glorious emerald isle..... of Gloucestershire.

    And people wonder why I don't trust a Marshall. Pheh.

    EDIT: I'm still rooting for Brandon Hiini.

  15. #15
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    There's bias, and then there's badly judged bias. We'll see if you start suggesting Joey Yovich as a replacement for the 'out of form' Oram.

    As for Jimmy Marshall, he's cut from the same cloth as that green-dyed Irishman Hamish Marshall. Put him in the team for five minutes and see him jump on the happy ship to the glorious emerald isle..... of Gloucestershire.

    And people wonder why I don't trust a Marshall. Pheh.

    EDIT: I'm still rooting for Brandon Hiini.
    Hiini got talked up by the Radio boys today. TBH I think he might be a bit of an Andre Adams, unless you can correct me otherwise.

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