Viv Richards v Greg Chappell

[Lillian Thomson]

Nah, neither Emburey nor Edmunds played on uncovered wickets. Reckon both might well have been very good indeed had they done so.

They both did.

 

[Richard]

For how long (in game, not years, terms) and at what levels?

 

[archie mac]

we have the same problem here about a certain geoff boycott, best batsman i have seen in my opinion has to be graham gooch, best allrounder has to be jack kallis, and the best quick, joel garner/malcolm marshall, best orthodox off spinner john embury, best leg spinner shane warne best left arm orthodox spinner phil edmonds, best wicketkeeper jack russell, best wicketkeeper batsman alec stewart.
that just might put the cat amongst the pidgeons

Fair enough my list: Going back to 1974/75

Best Batsman= Richards (Viv)
Best AR=Botham
Best Quick=Lillee
Best Leggie=Warne
Best off spinner=Vettori (two birds with one stone)
Best Bat/WK=Gilly
Best keeper=Wasim Barri (spelling, very good to the spinners, scared of pace when batting)

 

[silentstriker]

to be fair it actually seems to me to put these two batsmen together is unfair, bearing in mind the two differing styles and temprament of these guys, i have seen footage of chappell and seems to be a alan border no nonsense cricketer, while the master blaster is............. well the master blaster

Fair enough my list: Going back to 1974/75

Best Batsman= Richards (Viv)
Best AR=Botham
Best Quick=Lillee
Best Leggie=Warne
Best off spinner=Vettori (two birds with one stone)
Best Bat/WK=Gilly
Best keeper=Wasim Barri (spelling, very good to the spinners, scared of pace when batting)

For me, if you only count people I watched while they were still playing, I'd go:

Batsman = Tendulkar
Quick = McGrath
Leggie = Warne
Off Spinner = Murali ( I see what you did there , though I'd put even Harbhajan over Vetorri)
Bat/Wk = Gilly
Best keeper = tough one...I saw the tail end of Healy so it has to be him. Though lately, I've been getting hours and hours of tapes of Alan Knott keeping to Underwood, and boy, that was first class.....

 

[archie mac]

For me, if you only count people I watched while they were still playing, I'd go:

Batsman = Tendulkar
Quick = McGrath
Leggie = Warne
Off Spinner = Murali ( I see what you did there , though I'd put even Harbhajan over Vetorri)
Bat/Wk = Gilly
Best keeper = tough one...I saw the tail end of Healy so it has to be him. Though lately, I've been getting hours and hours of tapes of Alan Knott keeping to Underwood, and boy, that was first class.....

Yes, I should have given it to Murali, but we won't go there

I always put Knott, and he was the best that I have watched, but thought I might throw in Bari, has he was top shelf and never gets a mention

 

[silentstriker]

Yes, I should have given it to Murali, but we won't go there

I always put Knott, and he was the best that I have watched, but thought I might throw in Bari, has he was top shelf and never gets a mention

Unfortunately, Bari and Kirmani footage is less available than Knott footage, so I can't judge except on what people say. If you want to count the people I've watched on tape for a significant amount of time, I'd say:

Batmsan = Sobers
Quick = McGrath
Leggie = Warne (though I love watching Underwood, I wish I could see more Laker)
Off Spinner = Murali (not too much top flight competition, Bedi was beautiful, but he pales when you compare their respective effectiveness)
Best Keeper = Knott
Best bat/WK = Gilchrist

Surprised you didn't put someone like Bedi over Vetorri...

 

[silentstriker]

And I'm not taking anything away from Vetorri by the way. I think he is a very good player.

 

[archie mac]

Unfortunately, Bari and Kirmani footage is less available than Knott footage, so I can't judge except on what people say. If you want to count the people I've watched on tape for a significant amount of time, I'd say:

Batmsan = Sobers
Quick = McGrath
Leggie = Warne (though I love watching Underwood, I wish I could see more Laker)
Off Spinner = Murali (not too much top flight competition, Bedi was beautiful, but he plaes in comparison regarding his effectiveness)
Best Keeper = Knott
Best bat/WK = Gilchrist

Laker was off spin, but yes my respect went up for him after reading books on the 1958/59 MCC tour of Aust. The Aussies wanted to teach him a lesson after 1956, but even though they flogged England 4-0, they could not destroy Laker and all left with great respect for the finger spinner

 

[silentstriker]

Laker was off spin, but yes my respect went up for him after reading books on the 1958/59 MCC tour of Aust. The Aussies wanted to teach him a lesson after 1956, but even though they flogged England 4-0, they could not destroy Laker and all left with great respect for the finger spinner

Yea, I was just mentioning him as a person I'd like to see more. I saw the video of his 19 wickets...and he bowled exceptionally well undoubtedly, but boy there were some horrible shots played. I couldn't believe it. It was almost like they'd never faced a finger spinner before.

 

[archie mac]

Yea, I was just mentioning him as a person I'd like to see more. I saw the video of his 19 wickets...and he bowled exceptionally well undoubtedly, but boy there were some horrible shots played. I couldn't believe it. It was almost like they'd never faced a finger spinner before.

I think the Aussies were pretty much finished and had little idea of what to try against him. Defense did not work and hitting him did not work, so they were just canon fodder by the end. Laker had alread taken all 10 for Surrey against them before that Test

 

[silentstriker]

I think the Aussies were pretty much finished and had little idea of what to try against him. Defense did not work and hitting him did not work, so they were just canon fodder by the end. Laker had alread taken all 10 for Surrey against them before that Test

Yes, I can't get good video of that entire series - would have loved to see the whole thing in context.

Really the sixties is where I start with watching extensive TV coverage of players, so everything before then, I can't watch first hand.

 

[silentstriker]

Would still like to know your rationale for picking Vetorri over guys like Bedi and people of that nature.

 

[archie mac]

Would still like to know your rationale for picking Vetorri over guys like Bedi and people of that nature.

India did not tour Aust that much when I had the chance to watch them, and for awhile the Aust team was very weak because of WSC. I think if NZ played more Test cricket Vettori would be right up there. I also think the amount of ODI cricket that NZ play is starting to effect his flight and drift

I quite like watching Dilip Doshi good flight and was not afraid of being hit

 

[silentstriker]

I think if NZ played more Test cricket Vettori would be right up there.

Vetorri has played 80 Tests and he is only 29 - hardly a short career. I guess we'll disagree but I'd never put Vetorri up there as the best off spinner of 30-40 years, compared to guys like Bedi, or Prassanna, or Venkat......or even Harbhajan. Haven't seen much of Doshi so I won't comment there.

Though obviously the latter is much closer to Vetorri.

 

[archie mac]

Vetorri has played 80 Tests and he is only 29 - hardly a short career. I guess we'll disagree but I'd never put Vetorri up there as the best off spinner of 30-40 years, compared to guys like Bedi, or Prassanna, or Venkat......or even Harbhajan. Haven't seen much of Doshi so I won't comment there.

Though obviously the latter is much closer to Vetorri.

80? Well there you go

Still only 29 most spinners are at their best at 30+ so still time, yes from reading I think Prassanna the best

 

[silentstriker]

Still only 29 most spinners are at their best at 30+ so still time,

Yea, that does tend to happen a lot, as a lot of spin bowling is in the mind. So we'll see, and certainly NZ pitches aren't particularly conducive to off spin, so it hurts him there. He is very good to watch, and I hope he does improve.

 

[JBH001]

Fair enough my list: Going back to 1974/75

Best Batsman= Richards (Viv)
Best AR=Botham
Best Quick=Lillee
Best Leggie=Warne
Best off spinner=Vettori (two birds with one stone)
Best Bat/WK=Gilly
Best keeper=Wasim Barri (spelling, very good to the spinners, scared of pace when batting)

I like your choice of AR, AM, I would probably say the same myself over the Imran fanatics.

But then Botham was a formative influence in beginning my love affair with cricket.

 

[JBH001]

Laker was off spin, but yes my respect went up for him after reading books on the 1958/59 MCC tour of Aust. The Aussies wanted to teach him a lesson after 1956, but even though they flogged England 4-0, they could not destroy Laker and all left with great respect for the finger spinner

Yeah, I can remember Benaud saying something similar to that not too long ago.

I think he rates Laker his best offie, also I think he thinks Murali chucks it. Much like you do, AM.

Edit/ Got to agree though that I think your Vettori love a little strange. Always seen him as a tad over-rated, if still a good spinner.

 

[archie mac]

Yeah, I can remember Benaud saying something similar to that not too long ago.

I think he rates Laker his best offie, also I think he thinks Murali chucks it. Much like you do, AM.

Edit/ Got to agree though that I think your Vettori love a little strange. Always seen him as a tad over-rated, if still a good spinner.

Yep, there has been few who do well in Aust. so maybe I am putting too much weight on that, and maybe the figures on Vettori will suggest that he has not done that well here either

 

[shortpitched713]

That's the point though, really.

It's easy to compare players when there are few variables; the real challenge comes about when you have to decide which attributes in a player you value more.

For me - Chappell, quite easily.

I assume this is once again by the lower strike rate statistical criteria you value so highly.