Stephen Fleming to retire from International Cricket

[straw man]

I think I've posted along these lines before, but there was around 18-24 months there centred on the 2003 World Cup where Fleming looked to have gone to a new level. His balance was right, he wasn't falling over to the offside, which had typically led to a lot of lbw and caught behind dismissals, and he seemed to be seeing the ball like a balloon. Sadly it turned out to be just a purple patch, he became vulnerable to the inswinger again.

Still a very good batsman, obviously.

 

[NZTailender]

Always seemed to carry the weight of NZ batting on his shoulders, even if he didn't show it visibly unlike Williamson. He should've been more ably supported by McMillan and Astle but they underachieved even more than Fleming, given their natural abilities.

 

[Athlai]

Fleming would average 45-47 if he got to play instead of Nicholls in an alternate universe. Batting 5 with plenty of high quality support. Would've been glorious. I think he'd have been an excellent downhill skiier.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Good bloke, loved weed

 

[Prince EWS]

Fleming would average 45-47 if he got to play instead of Nicholls in an alternate universe. Batting 5 with plenty of high quality support. Would've been glorious. I think he'd have been an excellent downhill skiier.

I think he'd have been a good innings-rescurer as well. Given how good he was against spin and the fact that his main weaknesses were related to the moving ball he was really ideally suited to #5 but had to bat 3 below walking-wicket openers due to lack of depth at the time (and he even opened himself occassionally). It was one of the reasons I really wanted Sinclair and/or Fulton to be good enough to cement a spot - they were natural #3s and could have given Fleming some breathing space.

 

[NZTailender]

When Richardson was opening the batting, Fleming's average jumps to 42, which doesn't seem like much when you consider his career average is 40, but I feel shows the impact of having someone not get out within 10 balls. Drops to 38 when the side doesn't feature Richardson.

 

[mr_mister]

Good bloke, loved weed

He was 420 friendly? Dude! Nice!

 

[Zinzan]

Fine career. Best of luck for his future. Strike me as a natural coach.

 

[Bahnz]

Fleming has tons in Perth, SA and England and scored good runs against the GOAT spinner. Miles ahead of Tom Latham imo, and often batted #3 or even opened through neccessity.

The Vaas thing was mostly in odis when he opened. I re,ember because Migara keeps bringing the same point up for tests so I have to start reminding him of Fleming's results.

That hundred in SA was a bit like Ross’ 290 v Australia. Great innings but it was made on one of the roadiest roads you’ll ever see. James Franklin got an unbeaten 120 alongside him and even Jeets was biffing them around by the end if memory serves.

Tend to agree though, was probably being harsh. Always have to remind myself there was a big difference between Fleming pre and post Australia 2001.

 

[Flem274*]

That hundred in SA was a bit like Ross’ 290 v Australia. Great innings but it was made on one of the roadiest roads you’ll ever see. James Franklin got an unbeaten 120 alongside him and even Jeets was biffing them around by the end if memory serves.

Tend to agree though, was probably being harsh. Always have to remind myself there was a big difference between Fleming pre and post Australia 2001.

True, but Latham played the 290 game and scored 36 and 15 tbf.

 

[Bahnz]

Always seemed to carry the weight of NZ batting on his shoulders, even if he didn't show it visibly unlike Williamson. He should've been more ably supported by McMillan and Astle but they underachieved even more than Fleming, given their natural abilities.

Don’t think Astle underachieved that much. Was just a bit limited. A dude who started out as a Gavin Larsen clone managing to parlay his one shot (the leaden footed mow through extra cover) into a test average of 36 is not too shabby imo.

McMillan has no excuses though, especially batting at number 5. Should’ve averaged 45 with the talent he had.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Don’t think Astle underachieved that much. Was just a bit limited. A dude who started out as a Gavin Larsen clone managing to parlay his one shot (the leaden footed mow through extra cover) into a test average of 36 is not too shabby imo.

McMillan has no excuses though, especially batting at number 5. Should’ve averaged 45 with the talent he had.

Think the diabetes made it pretty difficult for McMillan. He did well considering that, imo.

 

[Bahnz]

Think the diabetes made it pretty difficult for McMillan. He did well considering that, imo.

Certainly hurt his bank balance. McMillan would’ve been a star in the IPL if he’d been able to hang around for a couple more years.

 

[Socerer 01]

McMillan was underrated in t20

 

[Fuller Pilch]

As well as Vaas, he also really struggled with Bracken in ODIs towards the end of his career. Struggled with the left arm angle when it was pitched up and swinging (so did Cook in tests against Boult and the Aussie Mitches).

 

[trundler]

As well as Vaas, he also really struggled with Bracken in ODIs towards the end of his career. Struggled with the left arm angle when it was pitched up and swinging (so did Cook in tests against Boult and the Aussie Mitches).

So did Graeme Smith against Zaheer and Johnson

 

[Bahnz]

Feel like left handers in general just find it really hard dealing with left arm outswing bowlers. There’s so few of them as they come up through the ranks, so they don’t build up the innate understanding of when to play and leave that right handers have against RA outswing. Then when you get to internationals there’s suddenly tons of the bastards and it can take quite an adjustment.

 

[Gnske]

Welcome to the forum Brett.

You raise some good points re. Fleming imo, though I still regard him as a fine player and a pretty incisive captain.

Still, as a leader imo so much depends on the cattle which you have that it isn't funny. I tend to think that he did pretty damn well with the sides he led.

The last polite post he ever made

 

[Bahnz]

The last polite post he ever made

Are we quite sure there wasn’t an early prototype of chatgpt that Burgey was experimenting with back in 2008?

 

[Gnske]

Are we quite sure there wasn’t an early prototype of chatgpt that Burgey was experimenting with back in 2008?

Hope not.

You know the bad thing. Being the 2000s you know that post is dead serious since its so formal and pleasant. But reading it as Burgey now, it looks dripping with sarcasm and insincerity.