Harbhajan reignites racism storm

[Bracken]

Well, either Tendulkar is lying, or the four Australians are lying. Proctor might have just gone for the numerical advantage. I don't know who is right, but I don't remember anyone being banned for three matches (Gibbs was banned for two, and Lehmann for some ODIs) for being a racist. It should be said that in the previous two cases, there was audio evidence of a racial slur, where in this case its just hearsay. That doesn't mean Harbhajan shouldn't be - and I'd be happy to have the penalties increased, but I would like to know the reasoning behind Proctor's decision.

I don't disagree with much there, but just one factual correction- I haven't heard of any audio tape of Lehmann's outburst.

The obvious question there would be that if he hadn't admitted being the one to have said it (and given that he said it inside the rooms, so it would only have been his teammates that would have actually seen him say it), would he been able to have been found guilty? Would the Australians have been able to close ranks around him to spare him punishment for what was a pretty egregious act?

Would have thrown up a few pretty good questions at the time, I suppose.

As for the penalties, I think that the range of possible penalties was 2-4 tests for the current case. Lehmann's penalty was 6 ODIs, with a possible range under the code of 4-8 matches. My understanding is that the penalty is served during whatever the next fixtures are on the calender, hence the test match ban for Harbhajan.

While the merit of weighting 2 ODIs against the value of one test match is certainly debatable, it would seem as though both Lehmann and Harbhajan were given the mid-range penalty for their offences.

 

[silentstriker]

do you know who the 4 aussies are btw?

Symo Hayden Clark Lee yea?

I wasn't counting Symo and Bhajji since they are directly involved. I think Gilchrist was one of the Australians too.

 

[silentstriker]

I don't disagree with much there, but just one factual correction- I haven't heard of any audio tape of Lehmann's outburst.

Hmm, I thought there was. I could be wrong.

The obvious question there would be that if he hadn't admitted being the one to have said it (and given that he said it inside the rooms, so it would only have been his teammates that would have actually seen him say it), would he been able to have been found guilty? Would the Australians have been able to close ranks around him to spare him punishment for what was a pretty egregious act?

I don't see how you could find him guilty if they were there and his side said they heard nothing. I think it was the Sri Lankan coach (Whatmore) and three SL players who testified at that time. If four of five others were there and claimed they heard nothing, I wouldn't convict him of it.

 

[Little Master]

do you know who the 4 aussies are btw?

Symo Hayden Clark Lee yea?

It was Symonds, Hayden and Clark for Australia.

Harby and Sachin for India.

 

[Bracken]

I don't see how you could find him guilty if they were there and his side said they heard nothing. I think it was the Sri Lankan coach (Whatmore) and three SL players who testified at that time. If four of five others were there and claimed they heard nothing, I wouldn't convict him of it.

I'm pretty sure that the hearing only dealt with what would be a suitable penalty, rather than delivering a statement of fact. Lehmann had already admitted his offence and had delivered his apology.

But I get what you are saying. I guess the point of what I am saying is that with the growing litigiousness of the sport and the process behind these complaints, the danger is that players are going to be instructed to treat it as a criminal case, and say nothing until they have legal advice and know if there is any physical evidence.

Tis definitely a shame for the "gentlemen's game".

 

[silentstriker]

At this point, I'd be happy with a rule that says there should be no sledging whatsoever. If you are caught sledging its a one Test ban, no matter what you say. That way, we don't have to deal with this crap.

 

[Langeveldt]

At this point, I'd be happy with a rule that says there should be no sledging whatsoever. If you are caught sledging its a one Test ban, no matter what you say. That way, we don't have to deal with this crap.

Agreed

 

[Little Master]

Sachin supposedly sent a message to BCCI president saying that Harby is innocent and that the board should stand by him, and only play if ban is lifted.

 

[Slow Love™]

At this point, I'd be happy with a rule that says there should be no sledging whatsoever. If you are caught sledging its a one Test ban, no matter what you say. That way, we don't have to deal with this crap.

Wow, didn't you used to be "anything goes" on this?

FWIW, I think I've come around to essentially the same position.

 

[Slow Love™]

The obvious question there would be that if he hadn't admitted being the one to have said it (and given that he said it inside the rooms, so it would only have been his teammates that would have actually seen him say it), would he been able to have been found guilty? Would the Australians have been able to close ranks around him to spare him punishment for what was a pretty egregious act?

It seems a common misconception that Lehmann made his remarks in the confines of the rooms. In fact, he said it on his way in, and was overheard by the Sri Lankans. They initially decided to let it go, but IIRC either the ref or another ICC official stepped in, and decided to make an example of him.

 

[silentstriker]

Wow, didn't you used to be "anything goes" on this?

FWIW, I think I've come around to essentially the same position.

Yes, I used to be. And ideally, I'd still like to be. I don't think you really should be an international player if you lose your wicket because some idiot called your mom a name. But if this type of stuff is going to happen, I'd rather get that stuff out of the game and focus on the cricket.

 

[jeevan]

At this point, I'd be happy with a rule that says there should be no sledging whatsoever. If you are caught sledging its a one Test ban, no matter what you say. That way, we don't have to deal with this crap.

Would be the silver lining to come out of this farce of a test.

That, and a set of steps making the umpiring better and more accountable.

 

[Rollypolly1]

I find this whole incident to be a farce.

For one, 'Monkey' is not referred to in a racist sense in India and much of Asian cultures. It means 'annoying/git/pratt' etc. Clearly not a term of endearment but definitely not racist either. Bhajji being an Indian can be accused of being a tool for not realizing how it'd be taken in Australia but he is to be held accountable for slurs as they are in *HIS* culture,not in a foreign culture if we are to discern what he intended.

For two, i what i find even more ridiculous is that it is Bhajji that is under the hammer for racism when there are atleast TWO incidents in the match with far more tangiable case for racism.
Remember- nobody heard what Bhajji said- it is purely a he-said/she-said thing. Yet, a white South African, growing up in the most depraved society of all ( Apartheid era South Africa) took the word of a white captain than over that of a brown guy(Sachin).

Plus i find it pretty flipping ironic that amidst all this hogwash about what Harbhajan supposedly said, nobody noticed that the ONLY black player (who's parent hails from Jamaica) got reprived by the ONLY black umpire on the field (who is also Jamaican), not once but TWICE ( it was Bucknor both times- refusing to give Symonds out in his 30s and then refusing to call 3rd umpire for run-out chance). Not only that, it was Bucknor too, who helped his fellow black-man and half-Jamaican out with a total shocker of a decision against Dravid.

yet, it is Bhajji, who's been fined for racism with not one shred of tangiable or circumstantial evidence to boot. But hey, this is Australia, isn't it ? racism is a way of life there.

 

[Little Master]

It seems a common misconception that Lehmann made his remarks in the confines of the rooms. In fact, he said it on his way in, and was overheard by the Sri Lankans. They initially decided to let it go, but IIRC either the ref or another ICC official stepped in, and decided to make an example of him.

I think the Sri-Lankan players heard him say it, and match referee decided that if the Sri-Lankan players accepted his apology they could forget about. Later the media found out and Malcolm Speed told the match referee to conduct an investigation and he was found guilty.

 

[Rollypolly1]

I don't think you really should be an international player if you lose your wicket because some idiot called your mom a name.

Perhaps you wern't brought up with the notion to respect family above most things but kindly do not make the mistake of thinking that everyone else is in the same sad little boat you are in.
This is just a game- if you think that to most players the game is more important than family, then i suggest you take a class on 'human value system'.

 

[silentstriker]

Perhaps you wern't brought up with the notion to respect family above most things but kindly do not make the mistake of thinking that everyone else is in the same sad little boat you are in.
This is just a game- if you think that to most players the game is more important than family, then i suggest you take a class on 'human value system'.

The fact that someone called your mom promiscuous doesn't make it true. To me, if you're going to get riled up over that, you shouldn't be playing international sport. Say something back.

 

[ozone]

This is just a game- if you think that to most players the game is more important than family, then i suggest you take a class on 'human value system'.

Thats just crap. He wasn't suggesting the game is more important than family, but that any batsman worth his place would not be affected by some schoolboy jibe.

 

[Slow Love™]

I think the Sri-Lankan players heard him say it, and match referee decided that if the Sri-Lankan players accepted his apology they could forget about. Later the media found out and Malcolm Speed told the match referee to conduct an investigation and he was found guilty.

Yeah, that sounds about right. I think the match ref was Clive Lloyd.

 

[Rollypolly1]

The fact that someone called your mom promiscuous doesn't make it true. To me, if you're going to get riled up over that, you shouldn't be playing international sport. Say something back.

To you it may be so, but clearly, it is not the case to most people or players, isn't it. I say get back in touch with reality, mate.
Its not a question of whether the comment is true or not, it is a question of why should a comment like that be entertained without a serious beating. I suggest maybe you get out of your home for a change and try insulting people's mothers and see what happens to you- you will find that most people in this day and age(particularly where you live) are professionals too, no different than cricket professionals.

 

[Rollypolly1]

He wasn't suggesting the game is more important than family, but that any batsman worth his place would not be affected by some schoolboy jibe.

Why don't you try making a jibe like that to professional people and see the outcome ?
I'd advice caution though.