View Poll Results: The better bowler ?

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  • Curtley Ambrose

    60 59.41%
  • Glenn McGrath

    41 40.59%
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Thread: Ambrose v McGrath

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by robelinda View Post
    Ambrose never played in India in tests did he? Only a few tests in 1990 vs Pakistan, or so I thought. Kinda like how Holding never played a single test vs Pakistan, weird.

    edit- yep Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

    Curtly's average of 38 vs India (overall) is the stand out bad team for him, bit like Donald 33 vs Aus, Wasim 32 vs England. does McGrath have a +30 team (overall)?
    If we look closely at stats of Ambrose against India, they are totally opposite to what one would expect. He played only 2 series against India. Both at home. Once in 88 when he averaged 50+ (as a bowler), and another 9 years later in 97 when he averaged 30.

    Interestingly, in 88, when Ambrose averaged a miserable 54, Indian batting was at one of it's weakest phases (Gavaskar retired, no Tendulkar).

    In that particular series, not one Indian batsman averaged above 40. India's highest innings total in the entire series was 321. India lost the 4 Test series 3-0 (the remaining Test was drawn because 3 days of play were washed out). And pitches in the Caribbean were very quick in that series, especially in Barbados and Jamaica. Marshall, Walsh and Bishop shared most of the Indian wickets between themselves.

    And when Ambrose averaged a not-so-bad 30 against India in 1997, India had a much better batting line-up, the pitches were practically dead (exception of Barbados), and 4 of the 5 Tests ended in draws.
    Last edited by coolkuna; 08-05-2013 at 05:49 AM.

  2. #152
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    am wondering... if ambrose and mcgrath were to open the bowling for a dream XI, could any other team produce a better opening combo ever?

    sure lillee and marshall would be more exciting to watch. holding and imran would be faster. donald and waqar may strike quicker. akram and barnes may produce more variety. truman and garner would be more intimidating. hadlee and roberts may be more clinical. but can any other pair be actually better than ambrose and mcgrath taking the new ball? you can match them by pitting the other champion pairs against them. but i guess, they both as a combo can never be bettered as fast bowlers.
    Gun post, though I belive the ultimate combination is Marshall and Mcgrath and they would compliment each other splendidly
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  3. #153
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    The most lethal pair of new-ball bowlers in actual Test match cricket (cut-off 100 wickets each) has been Marshall and Garner;

    Tests = 23
    Wickets = 230
    Average = 20.16
    (Period average = 32.63)
    Strike Rate = 44.77

    Stats from the Past: The best new-ball pairs in Test cricket | Highlights | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

    I'm not sure how those numbers can be improved given the obvious class of both Marshall and Garner. And if you think about it, their actions do complement each other perfectly. Marshall's deliveries 'skidded' through to the batsman while Garner's deliveries 'climbed' off a steep bounce.

    Although yes, I'm certain that Marshall-McGrath or Marshall-Lillee would also form lethal pairings as well.
    Tendulkar - M.Waugh - Ponting - Richards - Dhoni - Bevan - Kapil Dev - Hadlee - Akram - Garner - Muralitharan

  4. #154
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    The most lethal pair of new-ball bowlers in actual Test match cricket (cut-off 100 wickets each) has been Marshall and Garner;

    Tests = 23
    Wickets = 230
    Average = 20.16
    (Period average = 32.63)
    Strike Rate = 44.77

    Stats from the Past: The best new-ball pairs in Test cricket | Highlights | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

    I'm not sure how those numbers can be improved given the obvious class of both Marshall and Garner. And if you think about it, their actions do complement each other perfectly. Marshall's deliveries 'skidded' through to the batsman while Garner's deliveries 'climbed' off a steep bounce.

    Although yes, I'm certain that Marshall-McGrath or Marshall-Lillee would also form lethal pairings as well.
    I always bring this up when people say that they would pair Hobbs with Sutcliffe in an All World XI, that by the same measure they should also pick Garner with Marshall.


  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    I always bring this up when people say that they would pair Hobbs with Sutcliffe in an All World XI, that by the same measure they should also pick Garner with Marshall.
    An opening pair in the batting isn't just about stats, it's about an understanding between the two players - especially running between the wickets.

  6. #156
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    And an opening bowling pair is also about complimenting each other.

  7. #157
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    An opening pair in the batting isn't just about stats, it's about an understanding between the two players - especially running between the wickets.
    Just pick your preferred two opening batsmen or bowlers I reckon.

  8. #158
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    Ambi and Bambi. Its true he'd take all the wickets and I'd concede all the runs but I can just hear Michael Holding praising that duo. "Maan, whatta doo oh"
    Last edited by the big bambino; 08-05-2013 at 07:26 PM.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    I always bring this up when people say that they would pair Hobbs with Sutcliffe in an All World XI, that by the same measure they should also pick Garner with Marshall.
    I'd choose Hobbs and Sutcliffe everytime, not because of their partnership, but because imo they are the two greatest openers in the history of the game (blah blah Hutton yeah I rate him 3rd, just behind Sutcliffe). The fact that they played together in tests and are the most successful opening partnership is just a bonus. If I thought Garner was the 2nd or 3rd best fast bowler he would be in the XI.
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. M.J Procter 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

  10. #160
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Fair enough, but there are some who choose Sutcliffe because he actually opened with Hobbs, and I just never understood that.

  11. #161
    International Vice-Captain robelinda's Avatar
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    I give to you, my Curtly video of complete awesome.


    71 incredible CURTLY AMBROSE wickets, all BOWLED!!! - YouTube
    My Youtube cricket channels, thousands of gold old videos

    http://www.youtube.com/user/robelinda2

    http://www.youtube.com/user/robelinda

  12. #162
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Wow, robelinda, just wow!

    Flashback of how awful England's batting was in the 90s. Horrible.
    If you were that old, and that kind, and the very last of your kind, you couldn't just stand back and watch children cry.

  13. #163
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    thats awesome robbie. half way through and sound off but still gold. love some of those slower balls
    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    I just love all kinds of balls.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by robelinda View Post
    I give to you, my Curtly video of complete awesome.


    71 incredible CURTLY AMBROSE wickets, all BOWLED!!! - YouTube
    :
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  15. #165
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    The slow loopy yorkers and full tosses His action could be so deceptive!

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