• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Top 5 Australian batsman after Bradman.

JBMAC

State Captain
'Cos there were batsmen who did better or equally well against more challenging bowling than Ponting's faced when making the mountains of runs he has the last 6 years.
This is a common problem Richard when different age groups discuss cricket..Unfortunately some people can only relate to what they have seen and sometimes too young to comprehend the differences in the game and how it has evolved.In another thread on this site I made mention of Peter Burge and no one had heard of him yet he played for Australia for a good 10 years.

This is not meant as an insult to their knowledge just an observation I have ascertained over time.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
This is a common problem Richard when different age groups discuss cricket..Unfortunately some people can only relate to what they have seen and sometimes too young to comprehend the differences in the game and how it has evolved.In another thread on this site I made mention of Peter Burge and no one had heard of him yet he played for Australia for a good 10 years.

This is not meant as an insult to their knowledge just an observation I have ascertained over time.
Great that you've mentioned Burge and O'Neill mate, my dad is a big fan of both players. O'Neill by all accounts could have been anything - Bob Simpson, when asked who he would choose to watch bat for an hour of all the players he'd ever seen, replied unhesitatingly "Norman O'Neill". His temperament let him down apparently - he got very nervous and stressed before he went out to bat, and was forever weighed down by his "new Bradman" tag.

Peter Burge marks me as the Stan McCabe of his generation - not quite as good as Stan, mind, but the kind of player who really stood out for only a few of his many innings, and was often overshadowed by one or more team mates - but by God, when he was good, he was magnificent.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
I'm still trying to rank the boys in order for me, but as point of interest here's how a few recent polls and studies have ranked the top 5 Australian batsmen after Bradman...

Inside Edge's 50 Greatest Australian Cricketers (2003)

1. Greg Chappell
2. Victor Trumper
3. Neil Harvey
4. Alan Border
5. Steve Waugh

Daily Telegraph experts poll of Australia's top 50 cricketers (2003)

1. Greg Chappell
2. Alan Border
3. Steve Waugh
4. Neil Harvey
5. Bob Simpson

Geoff Armstrong's 100 Greatest Cricketers (2006)

1. Victor Trumper
2. Greg Chappell
3. Alan Border
4. Steve Waugh
5. Ricky Ponting

ESPN in their legends of cricket series (circa 2001) ranked the top 50 cricketers of all time - the top 4 Australian batsmen after Bradman were, in order - Chappell, Waugh, Border and Trumper.
 

sideshowtim

Banned
'Cos there were batsmen who did better or equally well against more challenging bowling than Ponting's faced when making the mountains of runs he has the last 6 years.
This is what I don't understand. If the quality of bowling is far poorer in the last 6 years than it's ever been, how come both Lara and Tendulkar average less this century than they did in the previous one? Surely such poor bowling would be slaughtered at a frightening pace by these 2 "legends" of the game?
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
This is what I don't understand. If the quality of bowling is far poorer in the last 6 years than it's ever been, how come both Lara and Tendulkar average less this century than they did in the previous one? Surely such poor bowling would be slaughtered at a frightening pace by these 2 "legends" of the game?
I thought it was pretty well established that Sachin and Lara were past their prime in the past 5-6 years or so, whereas Ponting had just hit his prime. I don't think Ponting is much better than those guys were in their respective primes. I do believe the quality of the attacks is somewhat worse than it was in the 90s when Lara and Sachin were gunning it.

That said, I think its obvious Ponting will retire as a legend of the game.
 

pasag

RTDAS
The decline of bowling has to be taken into account but I think it does get overblown a little here. But you definitely can't say that some of the rubbish England, India and the West Indies (just to name a few) that we've seen in the past few months hasn't been noticeable. It's been awful and that's putting it lightly.
 

sideshowtim

Banned
You still have to score the runs, and Ponting has done that far better and far more consistently than any other player in the last 6 or 7 years.
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
I think the differences in the quality of bowling is overblown as well. I'd say the current England bowling attack (when fit) is better than the attack of the 90s. Similarly Sri Lanka has never been harder to bat against. Kiwis' attack has improved slightly form the 90s IMO. I say lightly as Bond is rarely fit.

Really only Pakistan and West Indies have suffered the greatest setbacks in their respective bowling departments. India weren't really a big force in the 90s and they aren't today. So was the bowling quality of the 90s THAT much greater than the bowling attacks today?
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
One name i'm suprised that hasn't been mentioned is Doug Walters, his record is up there with the best of them. Also i'm glad to see Norman O'Neill mentioned, his in my Top 10 for sure. One of the most underated players, similar to Martyn in the current generations. Just having a look at Martyn stats that he finished off with, its disappointing he finished with an average of mid 40s. Same with Slater i guess, both players at their peak a lot better then what their stats might show.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
I think the differences in the quality of bowling is overblown as well. I'd say the current England bowling attack (when fit) is better than the attack of the 90s. Similarly Sri Lanka has never been harder to bat against. Kiwis' attack has improved slightly form the 90s IMO. I say lightly as Bond is rarely fit.

Really only Pakistan and West Indies have suffered the greatest setbacks in their respective bowling departments. India weren't really a big force in the 90s and they aren't today. So was the bowling quality of the 90s THAT much greater than the bowling attacks today?
I don't think it has to do with the overall attacks, just the lack of greats to combat 'potential' greats. But the thing is the bowling attack or lack of greats wasn't much better in the 30s. Whereas no really mentions it when comparing greats from that era.
 

sideshowtim

Banned
I think the differences in the quality of bowling is overblown as well. I'd say the current England bowling attack (when fit) is better than the attack of the 90s. Similarly Sri Lanka has never been harder to bat against. Kiwis' attack has improved slightly form the 90s IMO. I say lightly as Bond is rarely fit.

Really only Pakistan and West Indies have suffered the greatest setbacks in their respective bowling departments. India weren't really a big force in the 90s and they aren't today. So was the bowling quality of the 90s THAT much greater than the bowling attacks today?
Good point. Let's not forget South Africa, whose attack at the moment I would say is not much worse than the one they had in the 90's when Donald was running around. Ntini is quite a magnificent bowler, and Pollock is an all-time great. Surely the 2 of them together equate Donald at the very least?
 

Slifer

International Captain
Good point. Let's not forget South Africa, whose attack at the moment I would say is not much worse than the one they had in the 90's when Donald was running around. Ntini is quite a magnificent bowler, and Pollock is an all-time great. Surely the 2 of them together equate Donald at the very least?
Never!!
 

pasag

RTDAS
Ouch, missed it but checking now they've got the Adelaide test were he scores 115 on tonight. ABC2 > every other Australian fta station imo.
Sweet knock, took an awesome catch from Gower to stop him in the end.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
2. greg chappell
3. allan border
4. stephen waugh
5. neil harvey

then there are greats like trumper, morris, walters etc...ponting would also slot into that group somewhere...
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I think the differences in the quality of bowling is overblown as well. I'd say the current England bowling attack (when fit) is better than the attack of the 90s. Similarly Sri Lanka has never been harder to bat against. Kiwis' attack has improved slightly form the 90s IMO. I say lightly as Bond is rarely fit.

Really only Pakistan and West Indies have suffered the greatest setbacks in their respective bowling departments. India weren't really a big force in the 90s and they aren't today. So was the bowling quality of the 90s THAT much greater than the bowling attacks today?
Good point. Let's not forget South Africa, whose attack at the moment I would say is not much worse than the one they had in the 90's when Donald was running around. Ntini is quite a magnificent bowler, and Pollock is an all-time great. Surely the 2 of them together equate Donald at the very least?
No way. SA and England were both way better in the 1990s than they are now.

Donald, de Villiers, Matthews, Schultz (briefly), Pollock, McMillan, Klusener (briefly), Kallis (for a time) > virtually any attack they've had since 2001\02. Ntini is not a quite magnificent bowler, he's just a pretty good one, and Pollock bowled better in 2006\07 than he had for about 6 years before that.

Donald in himself was a better bowler than anyone they've had since the time of his retirement (Pollock at that time was probably roughly equal).

As for England... cripes, we've had two reliable bowlers in the last 3 years, Hoggard and Flintoff, and neither of them have been World-beaters even. There's been the odd other flash in the pan (Harmison in early 2004, Jones in summer 2005, Kirtley and Bicknell in a couple of games in 2003) which has been over a few games after it started, and there have been some bowlers (Mahmood, Plunkett, Harmison for the most part) who have done what had previously seemed almost unthinkable: made the makeweights of the 1990s (be it Williams, Reeve, Munton, Taylor, Ilott, McCague, Benjamin, Martin, Ealham, Brown, Flintoff or Giddins) look pretty decent.

And if you compare the genuine-article bowlers of the 1990s (Fraser, Gough, Caddick, Cork, Headley, White, Tudor briefly) to those of the 2000s... it's a no-contest. All those bowlers at their best are better than Hoggard, and their best has been seen more regularly than Flintoff (whose is equal if not superior to most of the aforementioned)'s best has been seen.

The Lankans' seamers might have a bit more to offer, in Laaasith Maaalinga, than ever before; and the Kiwis might have (occasionally) in Bond a bowler they've not had for a while, but let's not forget that the pre-injury Simon Doull wasn't too far behind Bond.

And in Doull, Nash and Cairns (when fit in all cases) NZ had a better attack than they've had pretty well any time in the 2000s. Only Bond-Franklin-Oram (in favourable conditions only) would even remotely compare methinks, and I don't even know if that attack has ever got on the park.
 

Top