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Thread: Sutcliffe

  1. #1
    International 12th Man Shaggy Alfresco's Avatar
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    Sutcliffe

    Everyone talks about how Jack Hobbs was the greatest opening batsman ever, but what about Herbert Sutcliffe, his opening partner who is more impressive statistically? Why does Sutcliffe have superior stats, yet is regarded as the lesser batsman? Is it because Hobbs gave his wicket away to a deserving bowler after a century?

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    That's one of the reasons (it was only a perception, and while there might be some truth in it doing such a thing is IMO poor batsmanship) - and Hobbs' longevity is another. Hobbs was probably at his best after the age of 36, which is nothing short of incredible.

    IIRR there's not much difference in their First-Class stats, it's just in Tests that the Yorkshireman trumps the Surrey man.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Alfresco View Post
    Everyone talks about how Jack Hobbs was the greatest opening batsman ever, but what about Herbert Sutcliffe, his opening partner who is more impressive statistically? Why does Sutcliffe have superior stats, yet is regarded as the lesser batsman? Is it because Hobbs gave his wicket away to a deserving bowler after a century?

    I think it was more the way he scored his runs, he apparently played every shot just like the text book suggests {Archie Mac (the real one) used photos of him to describe how to bat in a book he wrote}

    While HS was a real fighter and made his runs in a back to the wall fashion. although he did have a great hook shot by all reports
    You know it makes sense.

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    International Regular shortpitched713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Alfresco View Post
    Why does Sutcliffe have superior stats, yet is regarded as the lesser batsman?
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Perm's Avatar
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    Hobbs is the second best batsman to ever play the game IMO, Sutcliffe doesn't come close to him despite havng a very good Test record.
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    International Debutant iamdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    Hobbs is the second best batsman to ever play the game IMO, Sutcliffe doesn't come close to him despite havng a very good Test record.
    How can you say this when you've never seen either of them play, meaning the only thing you have to go on are their stats which are just about even and others reports.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    It's so hard to say conclusively that any one batsman is the 2nd-best ever to play the game as we know it today, really - even if someone had watched all cricket since 1900 they'd still never be able to say IMO.

    That said, if I had the chance to pick someone I'd pick George Headley rather than abstain.
    Last edited by Richard; 18-06-2007 at 06:36 PM.

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    International Regular shortpitched713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    It's so hard to say conclusively that any one person is the 2nd-best ever to play the game as we know it today
    I could be pedantic and mention that most would say pretty conclusively that its Garry, but I know what your talking about.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Haha, good spot my man. Post edited.

    I'd rank Sir Garfield as the best cricketer ever, myself.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortpitched713 View Post
    I could be pedantic and mention that most would say pretty conclusively that its Garry, but I know what your talking about.
    I think it is easily WG, but I know what your talking about

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I think it's futile to compare WG to anyone of the 20th century and beyond, TBH. The game he played was not the same as the one that Trumper, Fry, Ranji, Hobbs and everyone from them onwards played.

    WG was one thing and one thing alone IMO - far ahead of his contemporaries in the cricket of his day. Of course, he might well have dominated cricket had he played in, say, the 1950s, too. But he didn't, and IMO it's no use comparing.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I think it's futile to compare WG to anyone of the 20th century and beyond, TBH. The game he played was not the same as the one that Trumper, Fry, Ranji, Hobbs and everyone from them onwards played.

    WG was one thing and one thing alone IMO - far ahead of his contemporaries in the cricket of his day. Of course, he might well have dominated cricket had he played in, say, the 1950s, too. But he didn't, and IMO it's no use comparing.
    Should I mention 1895?

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Dono, should you?

    Try me.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Dono, should you?

    Try me.
    I expect you to do some research mate, and learn something new

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamdavid View Post
    How can you say this when you've never seen either of them play, meaning the only thing you have to go on are their stats which are just about even and others reports.
    Obviously I have limitations and can't properly judge them, but the conclusion I have come to after doing a bit of reading and taking a look at the stats was that Hobbs was the second best. I don't expect others to agree, or for that conclusion to hold up under intense scrutiny but it's the opinion I have formed.

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