Would Bangladesh give the Windies a run for their money?

[Pup Clarke]

When have the likes of Sylvester Joseph, Runako Morton and Devon Smith done much better?. All three hardly have good test match records.

 

[Richard]

In the cases of Smith and, maybe, Morton, I've always thought there was potential there.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Why you not an English fan?

And you've always seemed to be in the past.

Because I'm Scottish and I take great pride in that. I don't remember ever stating anywhere that I'm an English cricket fan. I keep track of their results and watch their matches with close interest but I ain't a fan. It doesn't bother me whether they win or lose.

 

[Richard]

Haha, well I never. The only other Scot on here always seems to be an England fan, too.

Anyway - you can be a Scot and still support England in cricket.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Anyway - you can be a Scot and still support England in cricket.

I could but I ain't. Scotland do have a cricket team yeh know.

 

[Richard]

But most of the time that team plays in England, not against it.

 

[Pup Clarke]

There still Scottish players even so. I've now taken much more interest in Scottish cricket now the game has dramatically improved north of the border. There are some very good players playing in the Premier Division in the Scottish league. This is backed up by the Scotland A team beating Lancashire's second X1 and coming very close to beating Yorkshire's as well. The likes of Qasim Sheikh, Gordon Goudie and Sean Weeraratna can go far in the game imo.

 

[Richard]

 

[Pup Clarke]

Don't s'ppose you've heard of many Scots players Rich?.

 

[Richard]

Well... I have now.

IAS, no, I haven't, I've barely been following the domestic game (and hence, by chain, the Scottish one) at all this season. Things will change sometime, of course.

 

[Prince EWS]

If anyone seriously thinks Bangladesh would have been capable of fighting back from the position WI were in an hour or so before Close yesterday they're outta their mind.

As long as we still win tomorrow, I'll be pleased it happened.

Oh, there's no doubt West Indies are the better team overall. I don't think anyone is disputing that. On pitches that aren't raging turners, they are infinitely better than Bangladesh. All I - and everyone else who argued it AFAIK - suggested was that that'd be in for a tough contest on a turner in Bangladesh.

 

[Prince EWS]

This argument about the WI not playing spin well is kinda faulty. Sarwan, Chanderpaul, Ramdin, Bravo and Ganga if he bats long enough are all capable against spin bowling.

I'll give you Chanderpaul. Sarwan isn't playing though and hence doesn't fit into "the current West Indies team" which is performing ever so direly. Ramdin, Ganga and Bravo are very exaggerated there IMO. Ramdin and Bravo certainly have all the tools to be good players of spin - and when the ball isn't spinning much, they look very accomplished against it. However, their shot selection when the ball actually is turning leaves a lot to be desired, and I can see Rafique firing one past Ramdin's attempted sweep straight into the pads for an lbw and Haque turning one past Bravo's attempted midwicket flick from over the wicket to bowl him off stump as well.

 

[Richard]

Oh, there's no doubt West Indies are the better team overall. I don't think anyone is disputing that. On pitches that aren't raging turners, they are infinitely better than Bangladesh. All I - and everyone else who argued it AFAIK - suggested was that that'd be in for a tough contest on a turner in Bangladesh.

The original thread-starter seemed to me to be claiming a bit more than you and those who've expressed the same sentiments as you have done.

 

[Nishant]

i think its really difficult to judge who would win TBH...Bangladesh are improving and WI seem t be going down hill. BUT...cricket is a funny game in the sense that you cant tell who would win until the two teams actually play. WI were seen as the 'appalling' test team who couldnt do anything right and got smacked at headingley...but then today..they are abt 150runs frm victory with 5 wickets in hand....thats cricket for you and another reason why its really difficult to judge which is the better team.

 

[Aritro]

Like every other team, they'd beat us comfortably any where outside of Bangladesh and wouldn't neccessarily be too far behind the play in Bangladesh either.

Bangladesh have little going for them apart from a lot of well wishers and optimists.

Our most recent additions to the test team are also miles ahead of Aftab and Ashraful in terms of temperment and maturity and I fully expect them to make a decent fist of international cricket when they head further into their 20s (age, not batting average). I daresay those optimists have a reason for being optimistic.

But yes, as I'm sure you'll point out, at this stage that's utterly irrelevent.

Nah, thats not a bad thing. What I meant was that they have a lot of people that wish them well and like to see them do well and like to put a rosy spin on events but have virtually zero players of any calibre.

*cue list of below average Test players*

I'd suggest Mortaza and Rafique would find themselves playing in other test teams too.

Rafique would perhaps only make the West Indies and South African teams (although IMO he'd make others too). His numbers would have made far better reading if circumstances were different.

Mortaza, on the other hand, has turned into a very good seamer whom I'd certainly consider to be a cut above some of the Indians, for instance. Like Rafique, his numbers are still a bit rubbish, but I suspect they'll start to reflect his quality when he's had a few more matches.

A short list, but not neccessarily below average.

 

[Goughy]

I'd suggest Mortaza and Rafique would find themselves playing in other test teams too.

Rafique would perhaps only make the West Indies and South African teams (although IMO he'd make others too). His numbers would have made far better reading if circumstances were different.

Mortaza, on the other hand, has turned into a very good seamer whom I'd certainly consider to be a cut above some of the Indians, for instance. Like Rafique, his numbers are still a bit rubbish, but I suspect they'll start to reflect his quality when he's had a few more matches.

A short list, but not neccessarily below average.

Before the England tour in 2005 people were talking up Mortaza and saying the exact same thing. ie Watch what he can do with a few more matches and more experience.

Since then his bowling average has increased Not exactly what was planned.

Im afraid to tell you that never taking a fifer in Test cricket, averaging less than 3 wickets a game and having a bowling average pushing 38 is below average in Test cricket.

If he was to find himself capable of playing for other Test teams (and Im struggling to think who) it would be as one of the worst players on one of the worst teams. Hardly a ringing endorsement of his 'above average' quality.

Rafique is a pretty ordinary cricketer. He seems porfessional enough but there isnt really anything too threatening with the bat or ball at Test level.

 

[Aritro]

Before the England tour in 2005 people were talking up Mortaza and saying the exact same thing. ie Watch what he can do with a few more matches and more experience.

Since then his bowling average has increased Not exactly what was planned.

I'm not peddling the old 'he'll come good with experience' line, it no longer applies.

Mortaza's already developed into a very handy bowler. Since 2005, he's added an off-cutter to his repertoire and he regularly bowls around 5ks faster after having put his injuries behind him.

Thanks to the scheduling, he's only played 4 test matches since April 2006, all four of them on Bangladeshi pitches that even the best bowlers in the world would struggle to get anything from (unless, of course, they were playing against us).

Given that he's had bugger all test cricket during a period in which he's played the best cricket of his life, and given the improvement and genuine quality I've seen him produce with my own eyes, I don't see much wrong in predicting that he'll sort his bowling average after a few more matches.

Hopefully the Sri Lankan pitches give him a chance to do that. Even our second-string pacers got a bundle of wickets there last time.

Rafique I'm less enthusiastic about, but I think you're a little bit harsh. Very accurate bowler with decent change-ups in flight and a very good arm-ball. Playing for the worst team in the world hasn't helped his numbers.

But as I said, he'd probably only make the West Indian and South African teams, so yes 'below average test cricketer' is perhaps an apposite label.

 

[Richard]

Rafique is a pretty ordinary cricketer. He seems porfessional enough but there isnt really anything too threatening with the bat or ball at Test level.

Well, he's a fingerspinner... and in being a fingerspinner he's not got much chance of being more than fairly ordinary.

But I'd say of fingerspinners he's one of the better of recent years.

 

[Perm]

But I'd say of fingerspinners he's one of the better of recent years.

Compared to Ashley Giles and Nicky Boje he certainly is, and they are only two examples or guys who have had decent careers yet been lesser bowlers than Rafique.

 

[Aritro]

Compared to Ashley Giles and Nicky Boje he certainly is, and they are only two examples or guys who have had decent careers yet been lesser bowlers than Rafique.

Rafique also very rarely had the chance to bowl at tail-enders, and didn't see too many 5th days pitches either.

Hell he hardly ever saw a 4th day either.

Which was my point about his numbers being skewed negatively due to circumstances.