Who do you think are the best and worst odi captains currently?

[Goughy]

Crap. Id deleted that post as soon as Id posted it. You are too quick for me Richard

Here it is again

What utter bull****, that'd be why he averages 38.47 in ODIs and why South Africa's last 41 ODIs read just 11 losses (Zimbabwe games excluded)?

None of which are really relevant. As we see earlier in the thread, Ponting can be criticised as a skipper and he a better record than Smith in both team and individual performances.

pup11 doesn't seem to really know the difference between a good captain and a good player. It's perfectly possible to be a very good captain while being an average player at the same time. The reverse is also true.

And which one is Smith? Very unpopular as a captain and has his struggles with the bat.

He is a very ordinary captain and McKenzie is the far more favoured guy to skipper the team.

There are thousands of column inches in the press and sports mags over the Smith captaincy debate.

He isnt a respected guy and his onfield captaincy isnt too sharp either.

 

[marc71178]

But does vaughan has the performance to even hold a spot in the odi side or his captainsy is the only criteria for his selection.

IMO yes - his batting in the last year or so up to his injury was actually a very good average - the start he had as a proportion of the number of games he's played makes the average appear artificially low IMO.

 

[Richard]

Crap. Id deleted that post as soon as Id posted it. You are too quick for me Richard

Oh, sorry mate, did you not want it any more?

Can delete my response if you prefer...?

 

[Goughy]

Amazing, that, I've never heard any remotest suggestion of that. What you get from local Press, eh?

Most people in cricketing circles, most people you talk to, press etc.

McKenzie is generally recognised as the best captain in SA and many want him as national captain.

McKenzie as captain is a big deal here. Its understood it will never happen and its part of the reason Smith and his deficiencies are heavily disliked.

Also any recal for McKenzie as a player is out of the equation as it would be difficult for Smith to captain a politically powerful and popular McKenzie.

 

[Goughy]

Oh, sorry mate, did you not want it any more?

Can delete my response if you prefer...?

Nah, not a problem. I stand by what I said. I was just worried about its relevance as Id only scanned the thread rather than going indepth.

 

[Richard]

IMO yes - his batting in the last year or so up to his injury was actually a very good average - the start he had as a proportion of the number of games he's played makes the average appear artificially low IMO.

The crapness was infinately higher in proportion than the decent spell.

First 41 innings: 840 runs at 21.00
Most recent 18 innings: 506 runs at 36.14
Substandard sides removed, obviously. Against Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Namibia and Holland Vaughan has indeed been impressive throughout, but as we all know, they were not ODI-standard sides at the time he faced them.

Vaughan has yet to prove himself, at all, a ODI-class batsman.

 

[Richard]

Most people in cricketing circles, most people you talk to, press etc.

McKenzie is generally recognised as the best captain in SA and many want him as national captain.

McKenzie as captain is a big deal here. Its understood it will never happen and its part of the reason Smith and his deficiencies are heavily disliked.

Also any recal for McKenzie as a player is out of the equation as it would be difficult for Smith to captain a politically powerful and popular McKenzie.

That's a great shame, I always liked McKenzie as a batsman.

It truly does amaze me that that sorta stuff is common knowledge for some, utterly unknown to others.

 

[Richard]

Nah, not a problem. I stand by what I said. I was just worried about its relevance as Id only scanned the thread rather than going indepth.

Okeydokey, I was just remembering your last post-remove instance.

 

[Goughy]

That's a great shame, I always liked McKenzie as a batsman.

It truly does amaze me that that sorta stuff is common knowledge for some, utterly unknown to others.

Well the final part I said is conjecture that people whisper. SA cricket have obviously never come out and said it, but it is kind of held to be true.

With Smiths current failings with the bat and his polarising style of captaincy it would be curtains for him if McKenzie came in and scored runs.

 

[Richard]

Give Smith a few flat pitches and I'd back him to come out of said lean trot.

 

[Goughy]

I was actually looking for something else and found this.

It doesnt prove or disprove anything but is a quick snapshot of Smiths popularity as captain (even if it is amongst South African ADSL users )

Nationally I would have expected it to have declined further since this poll but winning against Pak may improve it again.

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=37207&highlight=kallis

I've said this elsewhere, and I'll say it again. He thinks he's Donald Bradman, but he plays cricket like Donald Duck.
Now besides the arrogance, uselessness and delusions of grandeur, I'm sure he's a smashing guy, but he doesn't deserve to captain the SA team or to play in it.
Send him and Mickey "Mouse" Arthur packing, ask Jet to take the coaching job back, and the team will be better off.
You know it'll only get worse under Mickey and Donald.

 

[Richard]

^^^ That chap should get a Sega...

 

[Johnners]

Maybe the past performances of the bowlers convinced Flintoff that were he to have the field up the boundaries would leak?

Would certainly be the conclusion I'd come to.

So when you have a team on the backfoot at 5-85, you decide that your bowlers clealry aren't up to the task and set the fields back? Any decent captain would've kept the field up, given his bowlers the support they deserved after a fine performance to restrict the opposition to 5/85 to start with.

As i said at the start, had Ponting employed the same defensive tactics as flintoff, and as Ponting of 2005 might well've done, the match most likely would've turned out a lot different.

 

[Richard]

So when you have a team on the backfoot at 5-85, you decide that your bowlers clealry aren't up to the task and set the fields back? Any decent captain would've kept the field up, given his bowlers the support they deserved after a fine performance to restrict the opposition to 5/85 to start with.

Sorry, which game are we talking here? Eng have not had Aus 85\5 at any time this tourney. 93\5 and 108\6 at The 'Gabba, yes.

Assuming we're talking about that one, England had hardly bowled well. Anderson, yes, but not the rest. And coming off what we'd seen to date on tour, I'd say that had the field been brought-up the game would've been over much sooner than it ended-up being.

Of course, had we had Hussey when he nicked one to the wicketkeeper, things might've been different anyhow.

As i said at the start, had Ponting employed the same defensive tactics as flintoff, and as Ponting of 2005 might well've done, the match most likely would've turned out a lot different.

That grossly overrates England's batsmen.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Sorry, which game are we talking here? Eng have not had Aus 85\5 at any time this tourney. 93\5 and 108\6 at The 'Gabba, yes.

Christ, pedant much? The correct score in the game he was referring to was 5/84.

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1842

 

[pup11]

I think my thought is simple you pick 11 best players for a side and pick the best man out of it to lead the pack. Look at ganguly was one of the best captains going around but his performance wasn't good enough to hold his place in the side.But so the thing is if a captain is good tactically but performance wise if he is blocking a place of a guy who is doing well.

 

[Fiery]

I think my thought is simple you pick 11 best players for a side and pick the best man out of it to lead the pack. Look at ganguly was one of the best captains going around but his performance wasn't good enough to hold his place in the side.But so the thing is if a captain is good tactically but performance wise if he is blocking a place of a guy who is doing well.

I always thought Ganguly's captaincy was dreadful whenever the Indians toured NZ under him

 

[Bracken]

Tactically, I think that Ponting still is sub-standard.

He shows very little faith in spin bowlers that aren't named Warne, and has shown no inclination to be creative with his bowling changes when batsmen are set. When you have McGrath and Warne in your team, you can get away with it, but if they don't get the breakthrough (the last day of the Perth test against South Africa is a good example, along with the 05 Ashes), he doesn't seem to have a "Plan B" to fall back on. He hasn't worked out how to use part timers to break up momentum and buy a breakthrough, either.

Now that the security blanket of McGrath and Warne are gone, hopefully Ponting's learning curve will be steep.

I've been surprised how ineffective Fleming has been. He was utterly brilliant at his peak, but he doesn't seem to have the same innovation as he did a few years ago.

 

[Perm]

I've been surprised how ineffective Fleming has been. He was utterly brilliant at his peak, but he doesn't seem to have the same innovation as he did a few years ago.

Probably got something to do with the lack of runs he had to work with.

 

[JBH001]

May also have something to do with having Bracewell as a coach.

IMO his best period was when Aberhardt was coach, and it was Flemings team to run.