Who is Better--- Sachin or Gangs???

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Anil

no comparison whatsover as far as batsmanship goes....tendulkar is the greatest one day opener in history and is only rivalled/bettered by richards as a one day batsman....

No, he's not - Bevan betters them both.

[Anil]

Originally Posted by Richard

No, he's not - Bevan betters them both.

we've had this talk before...we'll never agree...so let's not go down that path...let's each hold on to our respective beliefs....michael bevan was an exceptional one day batsman but you will never get me to accept that a bevan can ever be in the same league as a tendulkar or a richards, sorry....i have what i consider cast-iron reasons to think so and i don't want to get into a richard vs tec like argument with you on them...

[Richard]

My objection was to you putting across your opinion as fact (yes, I'm more than aware I'm guilty of that, too) - and I was (as others do to me) pointing-out that.
As I've said - I think people write-off Bevan too easily because he had so few opportunities to demonstrate his ability to match Tendulkar and Richards for simple power-strokeplay.
But I've seen plenty of examples that he's capable of doing so.

[Jono]

How do people write off Bevan too easily? Just because Anil, and maybe a few others don't rate Bevan alongside Viv and Sachin doesn't mean a lot of people are 'guilty' (I use that in the lightest sense of the word) of doing so too.

Many people just bulk those 3 together. I certainly do.

[Anil]

Originally Posted by Jono

How do people write off Bevan too easily? Just because Anil, and maybe a few others don't rate Bevan alongside Viv and Sachin doesn't mean a lot of people are 'guilty' (I use that in the lightest sense of the word) of doing so too.

Many people just bulk those 3 together. I certainly do.

i certainly don't "bulk" these three together....bevan for me comes a distant third....his outstanding qualities in the one day arena were his abilities to stand firm under pressure and see games through for australia...and in the process built up an incredible average with a phenomenal number of not outs(by the way not all of them were made in pressure scenarios, in a lot of situations, an impressive top and middle order paved the way and he just put the finishing touches)....impressive under any circumstances...but and this is a big but, when you compare the overall batsmanship of viv and sachin and see what they have accomplished, bevan pales in comparison....the other two are hugely better stroke players despite what richard claims, while not being as quick as bevan between the wickets, both were excellent judges of the run, they have both influenced countless wins for their countries with magnificent performances which bevan can only dream about and they have been incredibly consistent at the top of the order with exceptional averages....obviously less than bevan's as the role and style of playing is significantly different....

[Jono]

I never claimed you did.

[Anil]

Originally Posted by Jono

I never claimed you did.

never claimed you were saying that man...don't be so touchy...was just trying to put my point across...

[Jono]

I guess the quoting of my post made me mis-interpret your post.

What I meant in my original post was that just because one or two people, such as yourself, doesn't have Bevan in the same category as Viv or Sachin, doesn't mean a general statment like 'people write-off bevan etc. etc.' by Richard was needed, because there are plenty of people who believe Bevan to be the best ever. Plenty also rate Viv the best, and Sachin.

Its like me coming out and saying, people write-off Sachin in ODIs too much because he didn't win enough games for India, and even though its obviously incorrect as without him India wouldn't have won half their ODIs through the 90s which they did and he won plenty of games off his own bat, it'd be far too swooping to say many people believe this, when in reality its just a few.

[Beleg]

You think Ganguly couldn't put fear-of-God into bowlers?

Not to the extent Tendulkar could, and did.

[Anil]

Originally Posted by Jono

I guess the quoting of my post made me mis-interpret your post.

What I meant in my original post was that just because one or two people, such as yourself, doesn't have Bevan in the same category as Viv or Sachin, doesn't mean a general statment like 'people write-off bevan etc. etc.' by Richard was needed, because there are plenty of people who believe Bevan to be the best ever. Plenty also rate Viv the best, and Sachin.

Its like me coming out and saying, people write-off Sachin in ODIs too much because he didn't win enough games for India, and even though its obviously incorrect as without him India wouldn't have won half their ODIs through the 90s which they did and he won plenty of games off his own bat, it'd be far too swooping to say many people believe this, when in reality its just a few.

agreed...and i am certainly not writing bevan off in any sense....he was quite an exceptional one day player to be sure....but overall as a cricketer i don't really rate him that high because he failed in tests, i am an old timer who believes that the real cricket is test cricket and one day specialists don't count for that much in my book....

[Anil]

Originally Posted by Beleg

Not to the extent Tendulkar could, and did.

absolutely!!!

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by Beleg

Not to the extent Tendulkar could, and did.

What difference does it make ? There was a period when Ganguly won as many matches and scored as much as tendulkar (if not more) for India.

As for the fear, there was a peiod at least in ODIs when Pakisani fans and cricketers feared Ganguly more than Tendulkar (just like we feared Aquib more than Waqar).

PS :- I gave the example because I have had the opportunity to interact with Pakistani and hear Pakistani cricketers more than say SAffies or Lankans.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Jono

How do people write off Bevan too easily? Just because Anil, and maybe a few others don't rate Bevan alongside Viv and Sachin doesn't mean a lot of people are 'guilty' (I use that in the lightest sense of the word) of doing so too.

Many people just bulk those 3 together. I certainly do.

And as I say - I put Bevan ahead of anyone else.
The "guilty" term referred to putting across opinion as fact.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Anil

i certainly don't "bulk" these three together....bevan for me comes a distant third....his outstanding qualities in the one day arena were his abilities to stand firm under pressure and see games through for australia...and in the process built up an incredible average with a phenomenal number of not outs(by the way not all of them were made in pressure scenarios, in a lot of situations, an impressive top and middle order paved the way and he just put the finishing touches)....impressive under any circumstances...but and this is a big but, when you compare the overall batsmanship of viv and sachin and see what they have accomplished, bevan pales in comparison....the other two are hugely better stroke players despite what richard claims, while not being as quick as bevan between the wickets, both were excellent judges of the run, they have both influenced countless wins for their countries with magnificent performances which bevan can only dream about and they have been incredibly consistent at the top of the order with exceptional averages....obviously less than bevan's as the role and style of playing is significantly different....

Not so.
Bevan may never have got the chance to play the sort of innings Richards and Tendulkar did at ODI level, but he demonstrated time and again his ability to play them at the domestic level.
You are ill-informed, simply, if you think Bevan wasn't as good a strokeplayer as the other 2.
If what you claimed was true, I'd agree that Bevan wasn't as good as the other 2 - but it simply isn't true, and as such I rate Bevan highest.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Beleg

Not to the extent Tendulkar could, and did.

Maybe not, I only really saw the two of them when both were coming towards the end of their ODI careers (2001\02 was the first time I took real note) but I'd say there wasn't a tremendous amount in it, at least in the time I saw.